BA Stonewalling...

"dc" <dc.TakeThisOut@dc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:47ab6aed$0$13937$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
> I have posted before on my attempt to claim under the EU legislation for a
> cancelled flight last year. It seems to fit the criteria but BA have more
> or less ignored me over the past 7 months. I did receive a £50 voucher
> while their "EU Compliance" dept looked into it but that was over 2 months
> ago.
>
> Since then I have been unable to elicit any response from them whatsoever
> despite letters to various departments (even one to Willie Walsh that I
> thought might at least get read by somebody with the power to do
> something...).
>
> I have written to the Air Transport Users Council and they are looking
> into it but is there anything else worth trying at this stage as it annoys
> me to be ignored like this, especially when BA is quite capable of sending
> me emails about various offers without any problems...
>

DC: This article http://money.guardian.co.uk/travel/story/0,,1416739,00.html
is interesting - see the last paragraph. It looks like the Small Claims
Court route is open to you, as Graculus has suggested.

See also http://www.opsi.gov.uk/SI/em2005/uksiem_20050975_en.pdf -
non-compliance with the regulations is a criminal offence. The CAA are
empowered to commence proceedings.

For your compensation, see also para 7.6 which supports the Small Claims
route.

Start your claim now at https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/ - it will only cost
you £30 odd (depending on the amount of your claim). If you need any help
then post back or email me at peterm at spamcop dot net and I'd be glad to
help you stick it to BA. You do NOT need a solicitor for small claims
(although you can use one if you wish).

FYI, the entity against whom you are claiming (legal name and registered
office) is:

BRITISH AIRWAYS PLC
WATERSIDE
PO BOX 365
HARMONDSWORTH
WEST DRAYTON UB7 0GB
Company No. 01777777

(I'm not a lawyer, BTW)
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

"dc" <dc.RemoveThis@dc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:47ab6aed$0$13937$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
>I have posted before on my attempt to claim under the EU legislation for a
>cancelled flight last year. It seems to fit the criteria but BA have more
>or less ignored me over the past 7 months. I did receive a £50 voucher
>while their "EU Compliance" dept looked into it but that was over 2 months
>ago.
>
> Since then I have been unable to elicit any response from them whatsoever
> despite letters to various departments (even one to Willie Walsh that I
> thought might at least get read by somebody with the power to do
> something...).
>
> I have written to the Air Transport Users Council and they are looking
> into it but is there anything else worth trying at this stage as it annoys
> me to be ignored like this, especially when BA is quite capable of sending
> me emails about various offers without any problems...
>
> dc
>

My situation is different, but I share your frustration at lack of any
action at BA.

We booked club and they changed the flight so there is only traveler class
on the plane (LGW to KEF early March). I've been trying to get the
difference between the two classes refunded for the last two months and am
completely fed up on the telephone of being told 'it's another department'
and customer relations not responding to emails. I don't really want to
write off £236...............
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

You kind of hope that BA put a bit more effort into maintenance than they do
for customer relations...

dc


"Matt Robertson" <SPEAMMENOT.TakeThisOut@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:ujpsj.6215$XI.1723@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> "dc" <dc.TakeThisOut@dc.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:47ab6aed$0$13937$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
>>I have posted before on my attempt to claim under the EU legislation for a
>>cancelled flight last year. It seems to fit the criteria but BA have more
>>or less ignored me over the past 7 months. I did receive a £50 voucher
>>while their "EU Compliance" dept looked into it but that was over 2 months
>>ago.
>>
>> Since then I have been unable to elicit any response from them whatsoever
>> despite letters to various departments (even one to Willie Walsh that I
>> thought might at least get read by somebody with the power to do
>> something...).
>>
>> I have written to the Air Transport Users Council and they are looking
>> into it but is there anything else worth trying at this stage as it
>> annoys me to be ignored like this, especially when BA is quite capable of
>> sending me emails about various offers without any problems...
>>
>> dc
>>
>
> My situation is different, but I share your frustration at lack of any
> action at BA.
>
> We booked club and they changed the flight so there is only traveler class
> on the plane (LGW to KEF early March). I've been trying to get the
> difference between the two classes refunded for the last two months and am
> completely fed up on the telephone of being told 'it's another department'
> and customer relations not responding to emails. I don't really want to
> write off £236...............
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

In message <47bd697b$0$8421$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, at 12:06:59 on
Thu, 21 Feb 2008, dc <dc.TakeThisOut@dc.co.uk> remarked:
>I have finally got a reply from BA about my claim under EU compensation for
>a cancelled flight and they have denied they are liable under this
>legislation as the incoming aircraft "was cancelled due to an unexpected
>fault".

So an expected fault would have been compensated, eh?

This was The Guardian's take on the rules:

The rules state that airlines won't have to pay compensation if
the cancellation is caused by "extraordinary circumstances that
could not have been avoided", and there has been confusion over
what constitutes a delay within the airlines' control.

Examples of "extraordinary circumstances" include political
instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the
operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected
flight safety shortcomings and strikes. In the event of
technical problems with the aircraft, you may still be eligible
for compensation, but adverse weather conditions, for example
blizzards, would be considered beyond the control of the airline
(although you would be offered hotel accommodation if the flight
was postponed overnight). These get-out clauses have led to
criticism that airlines are misleading passengers about the
cause for delays.

If it really was a fault on the plane, you may be out of luck. But
airlines have been accused of lying about the exact reason for
cancellations. The inbound plane never arriving is not very strong proof
that it was cancelled because of a fault - the airline might just be
covering up that it couldn't be bothered to fly both legs. However, such
faults do happen - I was on a plane last year that was almost cancelled
because the ground handlers possibly bashed it too hard with the stairs
when it arrived.
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

Another hopeless bit of legislation it seems.. I wonder if there is any
situation that can't be excluded because it is an extraordinary
circumstance?

BA seem to be disintergrating to me. Barely a month goes by without some
story blowing up about their failings, real or invented. Baggage systems not
working, queues outside the terminals a while back, seemingly endless
strikes threatened and 7 months to turn down my claim.. Maybe I've tipped
them over the edge.....

dc


"Roland Perry" <roland.TakeThisOut@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:FYRQBElDCXvHFAfw@perry.co.uk...
> In message <47bd697b$0$8421$db0fefd9@news.zen.co.uk>, at 12:06:59 on
> Thu, 21 Feb 2008, dc <dc.TakeThisOut@dc.co.uk> remarked:
>>I have finally got a reply from BA about my claim under EU compensation
>>for
>>a cancelled flight and they have denied they are liable under this
>>legislation as the incoming aircraft "was cancelled due to an unexpected
>>fault".
>
> So an expected fault would have been compensated, eh?
>
> This was The Guardian's take on the rules:
>
> The rules state that airlines won't have to pay compensation if
> the cancellation is caused by "extraordinary circumstances that
> could not have been avoided", and there has been confusion over
> what constitutes a delay within the airlines' control.
>
> Examples of "extraordinary circumstances" include political
> instability, meteorological conditions incompatible with the
> operation of the flight concerned, security risks, unexpected
> flight safety shortcomings and strikes. In the event of
> technical problems with the aircraft, you may still be eligible
> for compensation, but adverse weather conditions, for example
> blizzards, would be considered beyond the control of the airline
> (although you would be offered hotel accommodation if the flight
> was postponed overnight). These get-out clauses have led to
> criticism that airlines are misleading passengers about the
> cause for delays.
>
> If it really was a fault on the plane, you may be out of luck. But
> airlines have been accused of lying about the exact reason for
> cancellations. The inbound plane never arriving is not very strong proof
> that it was cancelled because of a fault - the airline might just be
> covering up that it couldn't be bothered to fly both legs. However, such
> faults do happen - I was on a plane last year that was almost cancelled
> because the ground handlers possibly bashed it too hard with the stairs
> when it arrived.
> --
> Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

In message <47bde5a0$0$2451$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>, at 20:56:39 on
Thu, 21 Feb 2008, dc <dc.RemoveThis@dc.co.uk> remarked:
>Another hopeless bit of legislation it seems.. I wonder if there is any
>situation that can't be excluded because it is an extraordinary
>circumstance?

"Can't be arsed to run the plane because of low load factor, and
stupidly forgot to trump up a fault on the plane".
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

Nothing for months and then 2 letters in 2 days..

Today I received the same letter I was sent yesterday and from the same
person.. Talk about reinforcing the point..

The letter also includes this classic of gobbledegook.....

"Airline operations are outside the control of the airline."

What on earth does that mean?

dc




"Roland Perry" <roland DeleteThis @perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Xr1kN5NQfevHFAvr@perry.co.uk...
> In message <47bde5a0$0$2451$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>, at 20:56:39 on Thu,
> 21 Feb 2008, dc <dc DeleteThis @dc.co.uk> remarked:
>>Another hopeless bit of legislation it seems.. I wonder if there is any
>>situation that can't be excluded because it is an extraordinary
>>circumstance?
>
> "Can't be arsed to run the plane because of low load factor, and stupidly
> forgot to trump up a fault on the plane".
> --
> Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

"dc" <dc.DeleteThis@dc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:47bebe5a$0$2453$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
> Nothing for months and then 2 letters in 2 days..
>
> Today I received the same letter I was sent yesterday and from the same
> person.. Talk about reinforcing the point..
>
> The letter also includes this classic of gobbledegook.....
>
> "Airline operations are outside the control of the airline."
>
> What on earth does that mean?
>
> dc
>
>
>
>

I got a letter from them today saying 'further to our email' which I never
received, enclosing a £50 travel voucher that I doubt I will use, but no
refund to my card yet, I did give them a deadline of 5/3 though.
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

Another day another letter from BA.. Today I got a letter apologising for
not including the £50 vouchers they promised while they looked into my
claim. The only thing is they had already sent me £50 vouchers at the time..

You can only hope that the admin management and the maintenance management
don't share office space...

dc

"Matt Robertson" <SPEAMMENOT.RemoveThis@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:SOAvj.11503$XI.617@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
> "dc" <dc.RemoveThis@dc.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:47bebe5a$0$2453$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk...
>> Nothing for months and then 2 letters in 2 days..
>>
>> Today I received the same letter I was sent yesterday and from the same
>> person.. Talk about reinforcing the point..
>>
>> The letter also includes this classic of gobbledegook.....
>>
>> "Airline operations are outside the control of the airline."
>>
>> What on earth does that mean?
>>
>> dc
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I got a letter from them today saying 'further to our email' which I never
> received, enclosing a £50 travel voucher that I doubt I will use, but no
> refund to my card yet, I did give them a deadline of 5/3 though.
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

"dc" <dc.RemoveThis@dc.co.uk> wrote in message
news:47c062f9$0$21099$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
> Another day another letter from BA.. Today I got a letter apologising for
> not including the £50 vouchers they promised while they looked into my
> claim. The only thing is they had already sent me £50 vouchers at the
> time..
>
> You can only hope that the admin management and the maintenance management
> don't share office space...
>
> dc

dc: It's time to sueeeeee..... file now in the small claims court...
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

I've had 2 more letters from BA today, from different departments. One says
they looking into it and one says that under "recital 14 & 15 of EU Reg
261/2004 extraordinary circumstances include unexpected shortcomings,
weather, etc..."

God knows if it does. I'm fed up with them all now. I've got £100 for each
of us in vouchers and was only after about £150 or so under the EU
legislation.

I think I might write once more and ask just what circumstances would fall
under the EU law. As far as I see everything can be excluded...

I must say BA come out of this as a right bunch of chisellers. They seem no
different to Ryanair in terms of customer service and at least Ryanair make
a point of treating their customers badly...

dc


"Traveller" <mcgurk.DeleteThis@mindless.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:13s8u8o6o1dai8d@corp.supernews.com...
> "dc" <dc.DeleteThis@dc.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:47c062f9$0$21099$da0feed9@news.zen.co.uk...
>> Another day another letter from BA.. Today I got a letter apologising for
>> not including the £50 vouchers they promised while they looked into my
>> claim. The only thing is they had already sent me £50 vouchers at the
>> time..
>>
>> You can only hope that the admin management and the maintenance
>> management don't share office space...
>>
>> dc
>
> dc: It's time to sueeeeee..... file now in the small claims court...
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

In message <47c57827$0$2452$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>, at 14:47:34 on
Wed, 27 Feb 2008, dc <dc.TakeThisOut@dc.co.uk> remarked:
>I've had 2 more letters from BA today, from different departments. One says
>they looking into it and one says that under "recital 14 & 15 of EU Reg
>261/2004 extraordinary circumstances include unexpected shortcomings,
>weather, etc..."
>
>God knows if it does.

There's enough in there to Google the Regs fairly easily. I'm fairly
confident they are capable of quoting the regs, even if from time to
time they might be tempted to decree a particular flight falls the wrong
side of the borderline.

>I'm fed up with them all now. I've got £100 for each
>of us in vouchers and was only after about £150 or so under the EU
>legislation.

Sounds to me like it's worth calling it quits.

>I think I might write once more and ask just what circumstances would fall
>under the EU law. As far as I see everything can be excluded...

Under- and over-booking. Over-booking is fairly well understood. By
under-booking I mean having so few passengers that it's cheaper to
cancel the flight and pay compensation. The fact that neither of these
happen here [1] very often is perhaps because of the EU regulation.

>I must say BA come out of this as a right bunch of chisellers. They seem no
>different to Ryanair in terms of customer service and at least Ryanair make
>a point of treating their customers badly...

I have also had several very bad experiences with BA's customer service.
Not just recently, it has always been pretty poor.

[1] Both are still alive and well in the USA.
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling... 

I googled up the regs and found a page which highlighted European cases that
apparently found against airlines trying to hide behind technical problems.
I've copied them into a letter and sent them off to see what BA says.

It isn't as if I'm asking for something for nothing here. If the roles were
reversed I'm sure BA would insist that the law was adhered to at all
times....

dc



"Roland Perry" <roland RemoveThis @perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:yat9BntL9XxHFAIo@perry.co.uk...
> In message <47c57827$0$2452$fa0fcedb@news.zen.co.uk>, at 14:47:34 on Wed,
> 27 Feb 2008, dc <dc RemoveThis @dc.co.uk> remarked:
>>I've had 2 more letters from BA today, from different departments. One
>>says
>>they looking into it and one says that under "recital 14 & 15 of EU Reg
>>261/2004 extraordinary circumstances include unexpected shortcomings,
>>weather, etc..."
>>
>>God knows if it does.
>
> There's enough in there to Google the Regs fairly easily. I'm fairly
> confident they are capable of quoting the regs, even if from time to time
> they might be tempted to decree a particular flight falls the wrong side
> of the borderline.
>
>>I'm fed up with them all now. I've got £100 for each
>>of us in vouchers and was only after about £150 or so under the EU
>>legislation.
>
> Sounds to me like it's worth calling it quits.
>
>>I think I might write once more and ask just what circumstances would fall
>>under the EU law. As far as I see everything can be excluded...
>
> Under- and over-booking. Over-booking is fairly well understood. By
> under-booking I mean having so few passengers that it's cheaper to cancel
> the flight and pay compensation. The fact that neither of these happen
> here [1] very often is perhaps because of the EU regulation.
>
>>I must say BA come out of this as a right bunch of chisellers. They seem
>>no
>>different to Ryanair in terms of customer service and at least Ryanair
>>make
>>a point of treating their customers badly...
>
> I have also had several very bad experiences with BA's customer service.
> Not just recently, it has always been pretty poor.
>
> [1] Both are still alive and well in the USA.
> --
> Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: BA Stonewalling...