New Zealand Bacon

On 1/7/08 2:04 PM, in article 7c85o3t6928tuigbvg1s5fg2pp5r4iq4bb.DeleteThis@4ax.com,
"texan....usenet@texas...removethisbit.usacom.."
<texan....usenet.DeleteThis@texas...removethisbit.usacom..> wrote:

> On Tue, 8 Jan 2008 07:25:21 +1000, "Kerry Raymond"
> <kraymond.DeleteThis@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
>
>>> What do they call what we in the US call "bacon"? What they
>>> called bacon was not, nor was it exactly what we call
>>> "Canadian Bacon", which is just ordinary ham made from the
>>> tenderloin of the pig.
>>
>> US bacon is from the pork belly.
>>
>> NZ bacon is from the pork back (same as Australia, UK and Canada). So it is
>> Canadian bacon as you would call it. Any differences you saw might just be
>> the use of different breeds of pigs and/oror local preferences as to the
>> amount of fat left on for cooking and/or cooking style (NZ bacon won't be as
>> "crisped" as US bacon).
>>
>> Kerry
>>
>
> The last time I was home, I was dead set on making bacon & egg pie.
> Alas, when I saw the bacon in the store, it was 'forget it'.
> It was no longer the beautiful rasher 95+% bacon with little fat but
> resemebled the US style bacon with more fat than meat.
>
> Cath

That's interesting. When I was in Australia, I thought it looked like
English bacon. The part made from the loin being the lean portion that we
call back bacon here, and attached to it the fattier side portion like the
US. Called side bacon here. I found that in all three cities that I
nominally stayed in.

--
Martha Canada
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

texan....usenet.DeleteThis@texas...removethisbit.usacom.. wrote:

>
>
> www.nzpork.co.nz
>

Well, yes, "belly slices" describes bacon, but what do
people in New Zealand ask for if they need that for
a recipe? Pork belly slices? Smoked pork belly slices?

Doug McDonald
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald.RemoveThis@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fm07um$hla$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
> texan....usenet.RemoveThis@texas...removethisbit.usacom.. wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> www.nzpork.co.nz
>>
>
> Well, yes, "belly slices" describes bacon, but what do
> people in New Zealand ask for if they need that for
> a recipe? Pork belly slices? Smoked pork belly slices?
>

"bacon"
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

The New Zealand bacon I recall was not like our back bacon. Not sure why
Americans call back bacon Canadian bacon. Our normal bacon is the rashers
just like the Americans and it can be fatty. The NZ stuff is better. The
back bacon is pink and round and small little fat but bigger price. Another
form of bacon we have is pea meal bacon.

Cheers from Canada


"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald.DeleteThis@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
news:fltfjl$oe8$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
>I just returned from a vacation in New Zealand, including the
> Milford Track.
>
> One question. No, two.
>
> What do they call what we in the US call "bacon"? What they
> called bacon was not, nor was it exactly what we call
> "Canadian Bacon", which is just ordinary ham made from the
> tenderloin of the pig.
>
> What part of the pig is what they call bacon? It looks
> sort of like Canadian Bacon, but is a larger cut of meat
> and the out parts are very fatty. Its clearly just ham by another name,
> but what area of the animal?
>
> Doug McDonald
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:51:43 GMT, "cactusjoe" <cacnospam.TakeThisOut@shaw.ca>
wrote in <z%ymj.9850$4w.6770@pd7urf2no> :

>The New Zealand bacon I recall was not like our back bacon. Not sure why
>Americans call back bacon Canadian bacon. Our normal bacon is the rashers
>just like the Americans and it can be fatty. The NZ stuff is better. The
>back bacon is pink and round and small little fat but bigger price. Another

F
>form of bacon we have is pea meal bacon.
>
>Cheers from Canada
>
>
>"Doug McDonald" <mcdonald.TakeThisOut@SnPoAM_scs.uiuc.edu> wrote in message
>news:fltfjl$oe8$1@news.ks.uiuc.edu...
>>I just returned from a vacation in New Zealand, including the
>> Milford Track.
>>
>> One question. No, two.
>>
>> What do they call what we in the US call "bacon"? What they
>> called bacon was not, nor was it exactly what we call
>> "Canadian Bacon", which is just ordinary ham made from the
>> tenderloin of the pig.
>>
>> What part of the pig is what they call bacon? It looks
>> sort of like Canadian Bacon, but is a larger cut of meat
>> and the out parts are very fatty. Its clearly just ham by another name,
>> but what area of the animal?
>>
>> Doug McDonald

OK, as a Yank who has butchered pigs will try to clarify what
part of the pig American bacon comes from.

First, have a look at the guide to pork cuts at the following
web site:

http://www.gourmetsleuth.com/porkcuts.htm

On the drawing of the pig, area #4 is the "side" of the swine.
[image by: Minnesota pork board]

To quote their description:

4: Side: From it comes the following cuts: spareribs, bacon,
Pork belly, Pork spareribs St. Louis Style, Pork shoulder hocks
Pork leg (fresh ham) hocks.

So the bacon portion in the USA generally comes from the belly.
A more detailed drawing can be found at

http://www.sugarmountainhome.com/livestock/porkcuts.html

On this drawing, see area " 7: Spareribs, salt pork, bacon.

"Bacon, of course, comes from the belly. "

The slab of bacon is then cured by packing it in a curing
mixture. One old mixture is 8 pounds of salt [Sodium chloride,
NaCl] 3 pounds of brown sugar, 3 ounces of saltpeter [potassium
nitrate, KNO3]. This is a dry salt cure, bacon slab buried in it
for a few days. (Time period varies)

Most bacon is smoked as well, hanging on hooks for 2 or 3 days or
longer in a smoke house. Hardwood sawdust is heated on a pan
over temperature controlled electric heater. Maple and oak, from
memory, don't use pine from conifers unless want a very odd
taste!

This sterilizes the meat and imparts the desired smoky flavor.

Actually, can be smoked longer for better flavor, and to render
out excess fat, to the point where refrigeration is not required
for storage.

This, of course, is the old, traditional method. These days it
could be just sprayed with a smoke flavor. Takes less
time.

To quote a bit from Wikipedia article on bacon:

"A side of unsliced bacon is a flitch or slab bacon, while an
individual slice of bacon is a rasher (United Kingdom, Republic
of Ireland, Australia and New Zealand) or simply a slice or strip
(North America). Slices of bacon are also known as collops.
Traditionally, the skin is left on the cut and is known as bacon
rind. Rindless bacon, however, is quite common. In the United
Kingdom and Republic of Ireland, bacon comes in a wide variety of
cuts and flavours. In the United States ordinary bacon is only
made from the pork belly, yielding what is known in Britain as
"streaky bacon", or "streaky rashers". In Britain bacon made from
the meat on the back of the pig is referred to as back bacon and
is part of traditional British and Irish breakfasts. In the
United States, back bacon is called Canadian-style Bacon or
Canadian Bacon.[1]

The USDA defines bacon as "the cured belly of a swine carcass,"
while other cuts and characteristics must be separately qualified
(e.g. "smoked pork loin bacon").[2] "USDA Certified" bacon means
that it has been treated for trichinella.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacon

In passing, a large meat company in the US used to advertise that
the only part of the hog they didn't use was the squeal.

Regards,
Kangaroo16.TakeThisOut@invalid.example
9:19 PM Saturday 26/Jan/08
Australia Day Holiday!
[GMT + 11 hrs]
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

And then there is whole hog pork sausage.
Never saw it in a shop, but bought it from
slaugherhouse.

Dick
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 05:46:22 +0000 (UTC), rdadams DeleteThis @panix.com (Dick
Adams) wrote in <fnh5re$mlj$1@reader2.panix.com> :

>And then there is whole hog pork sausage.
>Never saw it in a shop, but bought it from
>slaugherhouse.
>
>Dick

I would tend to question the term "whole hog", as
this would include the bones, which usually wouldn't
usually be finely pulverized enough to be included
in the sausage. Did they provide you with a complete list
of ingredients?

Or are you using the term "whole hog" to describe everything
except for the skeleton?

The only common food product I can think of offhand where the
whole animal could be used, including the bones, would be some
varieties of fish paste, usually used in pet food.

Of course, various organs of the pig would be more valuable
as a source of donor organs for humans, known as
xenotransplantation. For example, see:

http://www.life.ca/nl/71/xeno.html

This would be aided by genetic animal human hybrids, and
this is now being investigated.

Of course, as a science fiction story pointed out some years ago
we could probably produce human clones of human individuals as
an ultimate source of spare parts without risk of rejection.

Many readers may have heard of the recent mystery medical
miracle.

---------------------
Body switches to blood type of organ donor

Kate Sikora

January 25, 2008 12:00am

"DEMI-Lee Brennan has thrown the medical world into a
spin. Dubbed the "one-in-six-billion miracle girl", the teenager
is the first transplant patient in the world to switch blood
types and take on the immune system of her organ donor. [more
at]

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23104709-2862,00.html

Regards,
Kangaroo16 DeleteThis @invalid.example
Sydney, 10:44 AM Monday
28 Jan, 2008 [GMT +11 hours]
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

Kangaroo16 <Kangaroo16.TakeThisOut@example.invalid> wrote:
> rdadams.TakeThisOut@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:

>> And then there is whole hog pork sausage.
>> Never saw it in a shop, but bought it from
>> slaugherhouse.

> I would tend to question the term "whole hog", as
> this would include the bones, which usually wouldn't
> usually be finely pulverized enough to be included
> in the sausage. Did they provide you with a complete
> list of ingredients?

My father was the owner's family doctor. He told me it
was very good sausage. Since he was a nit picker maybe
he asked.

> Or are you using the term "whole hog" to describe everything
> except for the skeleton?

I was using the term "whole hog pork sausage" which is a
common product in the meat industry.

Dick
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 02:35:20 +0000 (UTC), rdadams.DeleteThis@panix.com (Dick
Adams) wrote in <fnjf18$7cu$1@reader2.panix.com> :

>Kangaroo16 <Kangaroo16.DeleteThis@example.invalid> wrote:
>> rdadams.DeleteThis@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:
>
>>> And then there is whole hog pork sausage.
>>> Never saw it in a shop, but bought it from
>>> slaugherhouse.
>
>> I would tend to question the term "whole hog", as
>> this would include the bones, which usually wouldn't
>> usually be finely pulverized enough to be included
>> in the sausage. Did they provide you with a complete
>> list of ingredients?
>
>My father was the owner's family doctor. He told me it
>was very good sausage. Since he was a nit picker maybe
>he asked.
>
>> Or are you using the term "whole hog" to describe everything
>> except for the skeleton?
>
>I was using the term "whole hog pork sausage" which is a
>common product in the meat industry.
>
>Dick

Personally, haven't encountered it by that name anyway. However,
the terms "sausage" and even "hamburger" can be made from a wide
variety of ingredients.

The best quality hamburger mince have encountered here is round
steak that is a bit too tough to sell as steak, so is ground into
hamburger.

Most hamburger mince is just a way to use various beef off cuts
and trimmings with a percentage of fat added.

Cheapest variety I have ever encountered was made from ground
sheep hearts as, unlike beef hearts, not much of a market for
them.

Have heard of cases where butchers added a generous amount of ice
to the meat as it was ground. Looks ok raw, if don't let it sit
around until the ice melts. However, if fry or grill it as a
hamburger patty, will shrink pretty dramatically.

This has been prohibited by law in some jurisdictions, but
generally there are no particular standards for amount of beef,
fat, gristle, etc. Powdered vitamins "A" & "C" were/are added
in trace amounts to preserve the fresh red meat color from
oxidizing to the less attractive brown in a refrigerated display.

As to the contents of cheaper varieties of "hot dogs", "meat
pies", etc. almost anyone's guess.

"Meat" itself is pretty widely defined. For some examples, see:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&defl=en&q=define:meat&sa=X&oi=gloss..._defini

or
http://tinyurl.com/2sbz6z

Regards,
Kangaroo16.DeleteThis@invalid.example
Sydney, 3:18 PM Monday
28 Jan, 2008 [GMT +11 hours]
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

i've never seen uch fuzz over bacon. to add to that, no matter what they call it, be it sausage, ham or bacon, the difference is always how it is cured and the parts it came from
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

Kangaroo16 <Kangaroo16.DeleteThis@example.invalid> wrote:
> rdadams.DeleteThis@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:
>> Kangaroo16 <Kangaroo16.DeleteThis@example.invalid> wrote:

>>> Or are you using the term "whole hog" to describe
>>> everything except for the skeleton?

>> I was using the term "whole hog pork sausage"
>> which is a common product in the meat industry.

> Personally, haven't encountered it by that name anyway.

Do a web search on 'whole hog' and 'sausage'.
It will be enlightening.

Dick
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

Kangaroo16 <Kangaroo16.RemoveThis@example.invalid> wrote:
> ....

You so much and so often. Yet you contribute so little.

I called a slaughterhouse yesterday and asked for a price
on 50 lbs of whole hog pork sausage. Without hesitating,
he replied $2.50/lb in links; $2.25/lb ground. I had
other thing to do so he didn't have time to quibble over
words.

Dick
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon 

On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 22:22:29 +0000 (UTC), rdadams DeleteThis @panix.com (Dick
Adams) wrote in <fog0b5$cua$1@reader2.panix.com> :

>Kangaroo16 <Kangaroo16 DeleteThis @example.invalid> wrote:
>> ....
>
>You so much and so often. Yet you contribute so little.

As to your particular purchase of whole hog sausage, I agree that
I wasn't of much help to you, if any help at all. However, the
original thread dealt with the differences in cuts used for bacon
production in various countries.

The object of the post was to point out that on an international
forum, a single term such as "whole hog", can be interpreted in
several ways by different readers.

As can "bacon", "petrol", and so on. Australian "English" can
have quite different meanings than "American English" or even
"British English"

This can be confusing for tourists or migrants, especially those
whose original language is not English.

Are you aware that there are several different common names for a
species of fish, for example?

This is why scientists use scientific classifications to describe
plants and animals.

For instance, if talking about an animal such as a "pig",
scientific genus and species names are used.

If want to get scientific about the definition of the
English word "pig:

Kingdom: Animalia
Phylum: Chordata
Class: Mammalia
Order: Artiodactyla
Family: Suidae
Genus: Sus
[Linnaeus, 1758]

For species, we have to get even more technical, as there are
quite a few, some now thought extinct.

Species

Sus barbatus
Sus bucculentus†
Sus cebifrons
Sus celebensis
Sus domestica
Sus falconeri†
Sus heureni
Sus hysudricus†
Sus philippensis[1]
Sus salvanius
Sus scrofa
Sus strozzi†
Sus timoriensis
Sus verrucosus

For more info, see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig

Didn't you mention that your father was a medical doctor?

A common over the counter drug used for minor pain relief [etc.]
is usually known by the name of "Aspirin". If a world traveler
goes into a pharmacy and asks for it will the clerk recognize the
brand name?

In my edition of the Merck Index of Drugs and Chemicals, it can
be found under this name, and is Merck Index monograph number
874.

Its preferred chemical names are 2-(Acetyloxy) benzoic acid, or
salicyclic acid acetate. However it is also known as 2-acetoxy
benzoic acid; acidum acetylsalicycylicum; acetylsalicylic acid.
.....and these are just the various chemical names!

There are a lot more registered trade names: Acetilum Acedulatum;
Acenterine; Aceticyl; Acetophen; Acetosol; Acetosalic Acid;
Acetosalin; Acetylin; Acetysal; acylpyrin; A.S.A.; Aspro;
Asterteric; Caprin; Colfarit; Duramax; Ecotin; Empirin; ECM;
Endydol; Enterophen; Entrerosarine; Helicon; Neuronika; Rodine;
Salacetin; Salcetogen; Saletin; Xaxa.

Partial quote from The Merck Index, Ninth edition, page 114

You should be able to find it in the reference section of a good
library, if you want to check the accuracy of my cite.

In passing, some people travel by freighter, which doesn't
usually have a doctor. It does, though, have a ships medicine
chest.

In the early days, communication was by short wave radio or
even radio telegraphy. If a ship has a medical or other
emergency, it communicated by an INTERCO code book.

This was available in various languages, so if an English ship
could only communicate with a foreign ship or shore station,
it had a medical section with a list of numbered drugs and
their Latin names.

Am sure that readers appreciate the need for a universal code for
drugs for administration and so on.

It should also demonstrate that words have differing levels of
abstraction and precision.

Again, I suggest that readers might want to read "Language in
Thought and Action" by S.I. Hayakawa. A fascinating book for
anyone interested in language, easy to read, not really that
technical. A senior high school student should have no trouble
with it, let alone a university freshman.

In passing, my copy was from the estate of an M.D. in the USA, so
obviously he thought it worth reading.

If any reader of this group wishes to read it, would be
interested in their impressions.

Anyway, Dick, am sure you would find it interesting.

>
>I called a slaughterhouse yesterday and asked for a price
>on 50 lbs of whole hog pork sausage. Without hesitating,
>he replied $2.50/lb in links; $2.25/lb ground. I had
>other thing to do so he didn't have time to quibble over
>words.

Why should he? If you go into a pharmacy in Australia or the
U.S. and ask for "Asprin" or "Aspro" the average clerk shouldn't
have any problem coping with your request.

However, if you find one who will part with a litre of SVR on
request you can give up beer. Would suggest that you dilute it
at least 1:1 with H20 or HOH before sipping it slowly, though.


Believe it or not, decades ago a medical student decided to
shortcut the process of inebriation by slowly injecting 5 ml of
SVR I.V. Unfortunately, not slowly enough, as he didn't survive
the experiment.

>
>Dick

Cheers,
Kangaroo16 DeleteThis @example.invalid
Sydney, 1:09 PM Friday
8 February 2008
[GMT + 11 hrs]
 >> Stay informed about: New Zealand Bacon