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Where do Brits go abroad?

 
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roland

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Since: Sep 18, 2003
Posts: 1710



(Msg. 16) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:38 am
Post subject: Re: Where do Brits go abroad? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: alt>travel>uk>air (more info?)

In message <nagjo3tpfjt4q0fq0jkp2q9bph1vh1fr36 RemoveThis @4ax.com>, at 23:49:19 on
Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Lansbury <lansbury RemoveThis @spamcop.net> remarked:
>>As I stated before, that can be done by triangulating the position
>>with base stations (though not to 5', mind you none of my 3 GPSes can
>>do it to 5' either).
>
>Well I stood there and saw it. It pinpointed the location of a call
>originating in Oregon City so as far as I'm concerned that was done. The green
>triangle came up on the screen in the street the guy was in.

I'm sure there are *some* phones that can be tracked by GPS, and no
doubt the screens *purport* to do it within five feet.

But to say all phones [1] and always five feet is not plausible.

[1] Supplied since the start of 2006 and capable of working in the USA.
--
Roland Perry

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"tim

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Since: Nov 09, 2007
Posts: 164



(Msg. 17) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 6:58 am
Post subject: Re: Where do Brits go abroad? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

"Roland Perry" <roland RemoveThis @perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Z8bXo6HdxbiHFAWx@perry.co.uk...
> In message <u61jo3df5qe8rleiu789vvso75ap0bvcug RemoveThis @4ax.com>, at 19:33:14 on
> Sat, 12 Jan 2008, Lansbury <lansbury RemoveThis @spamcop.net> remarked:
>>On Sat, 12 Jan 2008 07:41:09 +0000, Roland Perry <roland RemoveThis @perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>

Everyone's up early today Sad

>>>Are you suggesting all phones less than two years old have a secret GPS
>>>receiver built in?
>>
>>All phones that are less than 2 years old and which have the ability to
>>work
>>in the US have a GPS chip in them.
>
> Even the cheapest PAYG phone sold in the UK will roam to the US, and I
> simply don't believe they have GPS in.

They most certainly don't.

> This up-beat article only claims "1 in 4 by 2008":
>
> http://www.globallocate.com/PRESS/Press_Releases/PR_SingleChip_1.htm

I'd find even 1 in 4 hard to believe.

The current state of the art is that GPS chips are very large (by the
standard of everything else in a phone) - even the 7*7 chip in the release
is big. They are very power hungry (the article mentions 'low power'
without giving a figure - everything in a phone is low power in relation to
the components in a PC) and expensive - 6.50 is extortionate when the aim
for the BOM of a complete GSM phone is under 50 dollars (and that's for
*everything* that goes in the box, including the box!).

It simply is not comercially viable to put a GPS chip in a phone, *unless*
you can persuade the customer to pay for it. So far, despite several years
of trying and all the hype about the usefulness of "location based
services", with the possible exception of adding SatNav functionality, no
one has found a way to do this.

When I get back to work on Monday, I'll see if I can find out how many of
our customer's phones planned for 2009-10 have GPS chips in. I'd be
surprised if it's greater than 20%.

tim

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Telephoneman

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Since: Sep 27, 2005
Posts: 4



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2008 3:48 pm
Post subject: Re: Where do Brits go abroad? [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)

> <tims_new_home.TakeThisOut@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>And even if I did, the majority of them don't have a GPS chip in.
>
> see my reply to Roland
> --
> Lansbury (Retired)


It's a bit of everything really ; (from wikipedia)
A second phase of Enhanced 911 service is to allow a wireless or mobile
telephone to be located geographically using some form of radiolocation from
the cellular network, or by using a Global Positioning System built into the
phone itself.

Radiolocation in cellular telephony uses base stations. Most often, this is
done through triangulation between radio towers. The location of the caller
or handset can be determined several ways:

a.. Angle of arrival (AOA) requires at least two towers, locating the
caller at the point where the lines along the angles from each tower
intersect.
b.. Time difference of arrival (TDOA) works like GPS using
multilateration, except that it is the networks that determine the time
difference and therefore distance from each tower (as with seismometers).
c.. Location signature uses "fingerprinting" to store and recall patterns
(such as multipath) which mobile phone signals are known to exhibit at
different locations in each cell.
The first two depend on a line of sight, which can be difficult or
impossible in mountainous terrain or around skyscrapers. Location signatures
actually work better in these conditions however. TDMA and GSM networks such
as AT&T Wireless Services and T-Mobile use TDOA. [1]

CDMA networks tend to use handset-based radiolocation technologies, which
are technically more similar to radionavigation. GPS is one of those
technologies. Verizon Wireless and Sprint PCS use Assisted GPS.[1]

Hybrid solutions, needing both the handset and the network include:

a.. Assisted GPS (wireless or television) allows use of GPS even indoors
b.. Advanced Forward Link Trilateration (A-FLT)
c.. Timing Advance/Network Measurement Report (TA/NMR)
d.. Enhanced Observed Time Difference (E-OTD)
The purpose of any of these in mobile phones is twofold - first, the
wireless system must know to which PSAP it should route the call, and
second, the PSAP that answers the call should know where the caller is and
exactly where to send emergency services.

Mobile phone users may also have a selection to permit the location
information gathered to be sent to other phone numbers or data networks, so
that it can help people who are simply lost or want other location-based
services. By default, this selection is usually turned off, to protect
privacy.



Liam
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