Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride!

On Mon, 10 Dec 2007 10:02:49 -0500, Sue and Kevin Mullen wrote:

> Ray Goldenberg wrote:
>> Hi Everyone,
>>
>> I thought this weekend's article on the Chicago Tribune web site would
>> be of interest. It speaks of how Royal Caribbean, Azamara, and
>> Celebrity has severed its relationship with YTB & Joystar. It goes on
>> to discuss the pitfalls of these organizations.
>> http://tinyurl.com/243rlk
>
> Interesting article Ray, thanks for posting it.
>
> sue

Thank you, sue, for thanking Ray.
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

The article in question actually talks of the pitfalls of YTB only, as a
so-called card mill and pyramid scheme, as defined by Royal Caribbean
Cruises. Unfortunately, it does refer to Joystar just in passing, simply
trying to paint them with the same broad brush.

While the results may indeed be the same for now in the situation with
Joystar, the reason behind Royal Caribbean Cruise's decision is unraveling
to be something quite different in the Joystar's case. Of course, Joystar's
distracters and our competitors are quick to jump on this bandwagon for
their own edification, but here's what's really going on.

Royal Caribbean Cruises seemingly intends to go the route of the airlines,
knocking travel agents out of the loop completely. In fact, Royal Caribbean
Cruises is still working closely with Joystar so they will know their top
agents to deal with only, paying them 10% commission instead of the 16% they
would have earned from Joystar.

Royal Caribbean Cruises wins both ways, they keep the travel agent booking
and they get to pay them less. The bottom line is, maybe not this year, but
next, many other travel agents will receive their walking papers from Royal
Caribbean Cruises as well.

Happy sailing,
John Sisker, SHIP-TO-SHORE CRUISE AGENCY
(714) 536-3850 or toll free at (800) 724-6644 & (Agency No. 714.536.3850)
www.shiptoshorecruise.com
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

"John Sisker" <jsisker.DeleteThis@sprynet.com> wrote

> Royal Caribbean Cruises seemingly intends to go the route of the airlines,
> knocking travel agents out of the loop completely. In fact, Royal
> Caribbean Cruises is still working closely with Joystar so they will know
> their top agents to deal with only, paying them 10% commission instead of
> the 16% they would have earned from Joystar.

It has been reported that out of the thousands of agents that Joystar has,
500 of their top agents accounted for $5 million in Royal Caribbean
bookings. Sounds impressive until you do the math... and that means that
Joystar's top 500 agents each sold an average of $10,000 a YEAR in Royal
Caribbean/Celebrity cruises a year... or roughly 5 reservations per
agent.... per YEAR.

Bottom line is that Royal Caribbean was paying top tier commissions to
people who averaged less than one reservation every other month... and that
isn't a sound business model.

It is funny that John posted a letter on his website that a Joystar manager
wrote to me... but he never posted my reply.... and I gave him complete
permission to do so.

1) My reply to Joystar had virtually nothing to do with him in spite of his
accusations otherwise and

2) I invited Joystar to supply figures about how many agents they have and
how many dollars they generated for Royal Caribbean and of course, they have
not.

Instead, the only people in the travel business claiming that Royal
Caribbean is trying to do away with travel agents is Joystar and John is
spouting the company line, word for word. Funny how that works, is it not?


--
George Leppla http://www.CruiseMaster.com

January 20, 2008 - GGC2008 - http://cruisemaster.com/adventure.htm
May 12, 2008 - 5 nt New Orleans http://www.cruisemaster.com/fantasy.htm
October 26, 2008 Sleazy 5 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy5.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

George,

As a direct quote for Leslie herself at Joystar... "It took me a moment to
remember that I had written a response. I only write a response when I have
read something that totally infuriated me like Mr. Leppla did. To make me
even more frustrated and mad, his response to me did not even address the
whole point of my response, so I had tossed the e-mail in the trash."

Therefore George, again you are giving me permission to publish your letter
back to Joystar... so where is it? You've been asked this before, but it
never seems to materialize. If you're willing to put your money where your
mouth is for once, you can forward a copy to my private e-mail at
jsisker.TakeThisOut@sprynet.com. I'll be waiting.

As to the rest of your speculations, other that just trying to stir the pot
again, you're so far off base that even Joystar won't respond back to you
anymore, therefore I see no reason to do otherwise.

Happy sailing George,
John Sisker, SHIP-TO-SHORE CRUISE AGENCY
(714) 536-3850 or toll free at (800) 724-6644 & (Agency No. 714.536.3850)
www.shiptoshorecruise.com
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

"John Sisker" <jsisker.TakeThisOut@sprynet.com> wrote in message
news:13mfipahohqka3d@corp.supernews.com...
> George,
>
> As a direct quote for Leslie herself at Joystar... "It took me a moment to
> remember that I had written a response. I only write a response when I
> have read something that totally infuriated me like Mr. Leppla did. To
> make me even more frustrated and mad, his response to me did not even
> address the whole point of my response, so I had tossed the e-mail in the
> trash."
>
> Therefore George, again you are giving me permission to publish your
> letter back to Joystar... so where is it? You've been asked this before,
> but it never seems to materialize. If you're willing to put your money
> where your mouth is for once, you can forward a copy to my private e-mail
> at jsisker.TakeThisOut@sprynet.com. I'll be waiting.

Why would I do that.... when I can post it here publicly. Here you go...
like I said, it wasn't about you at all, was it.
-------------------------------------

Hi Leslie,

> Hey George,
> I saw your comment and I wanted to comment right back to you about
> Joystar.

OK... I am a big boy and I can take it.

> You are a very rude individual to say those things about John Sisker.

Actually, the only thing I said about John in this posting is that he wasn't
talking about the issue and that I don't know why he chooses to book through
ANY host agency.... instead of having hiw own accounts with the cruise
line.

Hmmm... you say to me "Get your facts straight" and then you say I am not a
a member of CLIA. Is this an example of the professionalism of you and
Joystar?

Please go to http://www.cruising.org/PlanYourCruise/index.cfm and enter my
zipcode 71129 Countryside Travel? That is me. I have been a CLIA member
since 1993 Check it out, get your facts straight and apologize at your
liesure.

> While we are on the subject of questionable companies, who in their right
> mind would want to book at a website with the following website address
> http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy5.htm . <

So far, 73 people have booked that cruise. It is the 5th in a series of
group cruises that started when someonje said they wanted to do a group
cruise from New Orleans and said he wanted to get Sleazy in the Big Easy.
The name stuck and so far over 500 people have gone on "Sleazy" cruises. It
is called "marketing" and in this case, it works pretty well.

Leslie, you seem to have forgotten the part in my posting where I said that
"My opinion about Joystar is that they are borderline at being a card
mill.... better than most, but still relying more on numbers of members
rather than numbers of travel sales."

Of course, you could prove me wrong and just publish the number of Joystar
"agents" and the number of Royal Caribbean cruises they booked in any given
year. You like facts, so let's get our facts straight and let's see how
much travel the average Joystar "agent" sells in a year.

Check out my CLIA membership, do your research and supply some factual
figures and I'll be glad to discuss this with you further.

Regards,

George Leppla, MCC
CruiseMaster.com
7815 Masters Drive
Shreveport, LA 71129
1-800-603-5755
www.CruiseMaster.com
------------------------------------------------------------

There you go, John. Now you can add it to your website.

> As to the rest of your speculations, other that just trying to stir the
> pot again, you're so far off base that even Joystar won't respond back to
> you anymore, therefore I see no reason to do otherwise.

Are you saying you are never going to respond to me? Now THAT is funny.


--
George Leppla http://www.CruiseMaster.com

January 20, 2008 - GGC2008 - http://cruisemaster.com/adventure.htm
May 12, 2008 - 5 nt New Orleans http://www.cruisemaster.com/fantasy.htm
October 26, 2008 Sleazy 5 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy5.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

To help clarify your misconceptions George, any response I direct back to
you is only to clear up your innuendos and speculations, not in any way
meant as a personal dialogue to keep any of your conservations going. But
now, and at long last, we finally have your illusive response back to Leslie
at Joystar. However, it is also quite obvious why she simply tossed it in
the trash; yet in connection to her private e-mail to me, at least some of
what you say does make a little sense. I'll have to fell in the blanks with
this information on my Website.

Most notable in your response back to Leslie (Joystar) is your continued
demand that they release their private agents list to you. Yea, right! We
all know that is not going to happen. However, on one hand, and in spite of
the fact that you don't have actual statistics, you seemingly have no
problem in simply making them up anyway, and then proceed to do your own
calculations based on your speculations. Welcome to the "Hypocrites of the
High Sea" on the ship of fools.

Happy sailing anyway George,
John Sisker, SHIP-TO-SHORE CRUISE AGENCY
(714) 536-3850 or toll free at (800) 724-6644 & (Agency No. 714.536.3850)
www.shiptoshorecruise.com
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

Thus spake "George Leppla" <george.DeleteThis@cruisemaster.com> :

>
>"John Sisker" <jsisker.DeleteThis@sprynet.com> wrote
>
>> Royal Caribbean Cruises seemingly intends to go the route of the airlines,
>> knocking travel agents out of the loop completely. In fact, Royal
>> Caribbean Cruises is still working closely with Joystar so they will know
>> their top agents to deal with only, paying them 10% commission instead of
>> the 16% they would have earned from Joystar.
>
>It has been reported that out of the thousands of agents that Joystar has,
>500 of their top agents accounted for $5 million in Royal Caribbean
>bookings. Sounds impressive until you do the math... and that means that
>Joystar's top 500 agents each sold an average of $10,000 a YEAR in Royal
>Caribbean/Celebrity cruises a year... or roughly 5 reservations per
>agent.... per YEAR.
>

Wow! Do you mean that I was one of Joystar's top agents? In October,
that is. Not so good last month or this month. But September was
equally good and I did more than that in August.
--
dillon

I used to think the horse's name was Bob.
And the angel's name was Hark.
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

On Dec 19, 12:41 am, Dillon Pyron <dmpyronINVA... RemoveThis @austin.rr.com>
>
> Wow! Do you mean that I was one of Joystar's top agents? In October,
> that is. Not so good last month or this month. But September was
> equally good and I did more than that in August.

When I retire ... I'd like to have that type of opportunity ... to
just sell enough cruises ...or enough cabins on one cruise ... to earn
a free cruise for myself each month ... not for any profit ... or to
supplement income ...
These card mills while on the surface appear to have a MLM feel to
it ... would give me that chance ...
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

"John Sisker" <jsisker DeleteThis @sprynet.com> wrote

> Most notable in your response back to Leslie (Joystar) is your continued
> demand that they release their private agents list to you. Yea, right!

Try reading for comprehension, John. I never asked for a list of Joystar
agents.

I asked Leslie to give the number of total agents and number of total sales
with an offer to continue the conversation. Let me refresh your memory...
here is what I wrote to Leslie:

"Of course, you could prove me wrong and just publish the number of Joystar
"agents" and the number of Royal Caribbean cruises they booked in any given
year. You like facts, so let's get our facts straight and let's see how
much travel the average Joystar "agent" sells in a year."

> in spite of the fact that you don't have actual statistics, you seemingly
> have no problem in simply making them up anyway,

William Averson, CEO of Joystar supplied the stats so I guess they should be
accurrate, no? Please look here
http://www.modernagent.com/Resources/Editorial.aspx?n=32451 Do you ever get
tired of being wrong?

However, I did make a mistake. It was 500 agents producing $6 million
dollars in sales... or an average of $12,000 per agent instead of the
$10,000 I stated. My apologies for the innaccuracy.

However, that still means that the average top producer for Joystar only
sells about 6 Royal Caribbean cruises a year. Would you have us believe
that someone selling one cruise every two months is a "travel professional"?

I invited you to put my reply to Joystar on your website and you posted that
I sould "put my money where my mouth is" and produce the letter. I did.

Now it is your turn. Put your money where your mouth is, John... and put my
reply on your website.


--
George Leppla http://www.CruiseMaster.com

January 20, 2008 - GGC2008 - http://cruisemaster.com/adventure.htm
May 12, 2008 - 5 nt New Orleans http://www.cruisemaster.com/fantasy.htm
October 26, 2008 Sleazy 5 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy5.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

Please Jean/Sue, I am sure these guys are violating the charter in some way.
Please tell them what item they are violating or make something up (you
know, wink, wink) and tell them to take this little 'mine is bigger than
yours' contest to email


"George Leppla" <george RemoveThis @cruisemaster.com> wrote in message
news:fkb6ru0o8l@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
> "John Sisker" <jsisker RemoveThis @sprynet.com> wrote
>
>> Most notable in your response back to Leslie (Joystar) is your continued
>> demand that they release their private agents list to you. Yea, right!
>
> Try reading for comprehension, John. I never asked for a list of Joystar
> agents.
>
> I asked Leslie to give the number of total agents and number of total
> sales with an offer to continue the conversation. Let me refresh your
> memory... here is what I wrote to Leslie:
>
> "Of course, you could prove me wrong and just publish the number of
> Joystar
> "agents" and the number of Royal Caribbean cruises they booked in any
> given
> year. You like facts, so let's get our facts straight and let's see how
> much travel the average Joystar "agent" sells in a year."
>
>> in spite of the fact that you don't have actual statistics, you
>> seemingly have no problem in simply making them up anyway,
>
> William Averson, CEO of Joystar supplied the stats so I guess they should
> be accurrate, no? Please look here
> http://www.modernagent.com/Resources/Editorial.aspx?n=32451 Do you ever
> get tired of being wrong?
>
> However, I did make a mistake. It was 500 agents producing $6 million
> dollars in sales... or an average of $12,000 per agent instead of the
> $10,000 I stated. My apologies for the innaccuracy.
>
> However, that still means that the average top producer for Joystar only
> sells about 6 Royal Caribbean cruises a year. Would you have us believe
> that someone selling one cruise every two months is a "travel
> professional"?
>
> I invited you to put my reply to Joystar on your website and you posted
> that I sould "put my money where my mouth is" and produce the letter. I
> did.
>
> Now it is your turn. Put your money where your mouth is, John... and put
> my reply on your website.
>
>
> --
> George Leppla http://www.CruiseMaster.com
>
> January 20, 2008 - GGC2008 - http://cruisemaster.com/adventure.htm
> May 12, 2008 - 5 nt New Orleans http://www.cruisemaster.com/fantasy.htm
> October 26, 2008 Sleazy 5 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy5.htm
>
>
>
>
>
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

"number6" <snumber6.TakeThisOut@aol.com> wrote

> When I retire ... I'd like to have that type of opportunity ... to
> just sell enough cruises ...or enough cabins on one cruise ... to earn
> a free cruise for myself each month ... not for any profit ... or to
> supplement income ...
> These card mills while on the surface appear to have a MLM feel to
> it ... would give me that chance ...


Fair enough... if you want to go on one cruise a month, figure you need
$1500 to $2000.

Roughly... that would mean you would have to sell 6 to 10 cruises a month
(depending on the cost of the cruises you sell)

According to figures given by the CEO of Joystar, their top agents (on
average) don't sell that many Royal Caribbean cruises in a year.


--
George Leppla http://www.CruiseMaster.com

January 20, 2008 - GGC2008 - http://cruisemaster.com/adventure.htm
May 12, 2008 - 5 nt New Orleans http://www.cruisemaster.com/fantasy.htm
October 26, 2008 Sleazy 5 http://www.cruisemaster.com/sleazy5.htm
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

George,

Seemingly, your idiosyncratic ways have unfortunately inspired a few other
rtc lemmings to follow your misguided lead as well, for now you are
obviously splitting hairs. And even you now admit your own inaccuracies in
calculating your evaluation in the Joystar/RCI relationship. Yet, you
conveniently failed to mention Joystar's own statement of... "It is
important to remember not all our agents book cruises," so your speculations
are simply a moot point anyway.

Now, from your comments to others in this post, let me get something
straight. Are your now telling us that instead of offering available perks
from the cruise lines to your group clients, you simply keep them as a free
cruise for yourself? Wow! Even I don't do that. In fact, I won't even take
FAM trips.

All in all, the comments from James are pretty accurate. Now we both run the
risk of getting reprimanded for violating Jean's and Sue's Charter in some
way.

Happy sailing,
John Sisker, SHIP-TO-SHORE CRUISE AGENCY
(714) 536-3850 or toll free at (800) 724-6644 & (Agency No. 714.536.3850)
www.shiptoshorecruise.com
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride! 

John Sisker wrote:

> All in all, the comments from James are pretty accurate. Now we both run the
> risk of getting reprimanded for violating Jean's and Sue's Charter in some
> way.

John, in no way am I going to reprimand you, as if you really care.
This just goes to show how little you know, pretty dumb believing
anything James, a troll, has to say. You just keep digging yourself a
deeper hole....geez!!

sue
 >> Stay informed about: Card Mills Take 'Agents' For a Ride!