Engine Noise and Seating

On Oct 9, 4:03 am, "F. D. Lewis" <lewi... RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> are there any web sites that provide warnings about engine noise?
> SeatGuru does not.
>
> a month ago we took Korean Air from Bangkok to LAX. on the Incheon to
> LA leg we had selected seats in the forward business class cabin (8AB)
> many months before the flight. we were pulled out of the boarding
> line and told that one of our seats (8B) was broken. they changed us
> to 11AB (in the after business class cabin) and rushed us on board.
> these seats turned out to be exactly over the engines. talking in
> normal tones was impossible, as was hearing the movie soundtracks. we
> were upset that Korean Air did not contact us during our six-hour
> layover to reschedule the flight. they did have time to sell seat 8A
> however.
>
> anyway, is there an easy way to know about excessive noise other than
> checking seat plans to find the seats at the forward edge of the wing?
>
> also, can you refuse a seat change like this and force them to
> reschedule your trip?

If there is any charge for rescheduling you will have to pay it. You
pay for a class of service, not for a specific seat.

I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
*behind* the engines for noise to be a problem. First, you can't be
"exactly over the engines" unless you were sitting out on a wing
somewhere. I've never experienced a noise problem either in front of
the wings or above them.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:57:39 -0700, Tchiowa
<tchiowa2.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:


>I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
>*behind* the engines for noise to be a problem. First, you can't be
>"exactly over the engines" unless you were sitting out on a wing
>somewhere. I've never experienced a noise problem either in front of
>the wings or above them.

I used to occasionally sit in the rear of 727s, between the two
outriggered engines. They were noisy, and because they were never
perfectly synched, you could hear the frequency modulation going
in and out. One time I flew one to LA for an engineering
conference back in the 1960s, and one of the presentations was a
new-fangled computer representation of a cross section at the
rear of a 727, with standing waves being created within the shell
of the fuselage itself.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:45:14 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:57:39 -0700, Tchiowa
><tchiowa2 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
>>*behind* the engines for noise to be a problem. First, you can't be
>>"exactly over the engines" unless you were sitting out on a wing
>>somewhere. I've never experienced a noise problem either in front of
>>the wings or above them.
>
>I used to occasionally sit in the rear of 727s, between the two
>outriggered engines. They were noisy, and because they were never
>perfectly synched, you could hear the frequency modulation going
>in and out. One time I flew one to LA for an engineering
>conference back in the 1960s, and one of the presentations was a
>new-fangled computer representation of a cross section at the
>rear of a 727, with standing waves being created within the shell
>of the fuselage itself.

What is the resonant frequency of an airplane?
Isn't there supposed to be some sort of filter
in the electronic circuits, like there is for the bending mode?
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

F. D. Lewis writes:

> a month ago we took Korean Air from Bangkok to LAX. on the Incheon to
> LA leg we had selected seats in the forward business class cabin (8AB)
> many months before the flight. we were pulled out of the boarding
> line and told that one of our seats (8B) was broken. they changed us
> to 11AB (in the after business class cabin) and rushed us on board.
> these seats turned out to be exactly over the engines. talking in
> normal tones was impossible, as was hearing the movie soundtracks. we
> were upset that Korean Air did not contact us during our six-hour
> layover to reschedule the flight. they did have time to sell seat 8A
> however.

What type of aircraft was this?

> anyway, is there an easy way to know about excessive noise other than
> checking seat plans to find the seats at the forward edge of the wing?

The seats at the forward edge of the wing should not be particularly noisy.
Most of the noise produced by engines comes from the back.

Remember also that a lot of the noise you hear on an aircraft is wind, not
engines.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

"F. D. Lewis" wrote
news:1191877405.403124.269110@50g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
> line and told that one of our seats (8B) was broken. they changed us
> to 11AB (in the after business class cabin) and rushed us on board.
> these seats turned out to be exactly over the engines.


Oh, please... what a non-issue. You were changed seats from 8 to 11 and
(only 3 rows) and you were annoyed by the engine noise? *LOL*
Greetings,

-pff!
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:49:53 -0700, irwell <hook.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:45:14 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:57:39 -0700, Tchiowa
>><tchiowa2.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
>>>*behind* the engines for noise to be a problem. First, you can't be
>>>"exactly over the engines" unless you were sitting out on a wing
>>>somewhere. I've never experienced a noise problem either in front of
>>>the wings or above them.
>>
>>I used to occasionally sit in the rear of 727s, between the two
>>outriggered engines. They were noisy, and because they were never
>>perfectly synched, you could hear the frequency modulation going
>>in and out. One time I flew one to LA for an engineering
>>conference back in the 1960s, and one of the presentations was a
>>new-fangled computer representation of a cross section at the
>>rear of a 727, with standing waves being created within the shell
>>of the fuselage itself.
>
> What is the resonant frequency of an airplane?
>Isn't there supposed to be some sort of filter
>in the electronic circuits, like there is for the bending mode?

Um, we're talking elastic waves here, literally warping of the
fuselage.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

Tchiowa wrote:

>
> I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
> *behind* the engines for noise to be a problem.

Nonsense. Have you ever sat anywhere near the back of an MD80?
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

mrtravel wrote:

> Tchiowa wrote:
>
>>
>> I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
>> *behind* the engines for noise to be a problem.
>
>
> Nonsense. Have you ever sat anywhere near the back of an MD80?

None of the jets I've flown come anywhere near a Super Connie.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

"Frank F. Matthews" <matthews942.TakeThisOut@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:470c2e65$0$15372$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>
>
> mrtravel wrote:
>
>> Tchiowa wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
>>> *behind* the engines for noise to be a problem.
>>
>>
>> Nonsense. Have you ever sat anywhere near the back of an MD80?
>
> None of the jets I've flown come anywhere near a Super Connie.
>

Those 3350 TurboCompounds could resonate.....
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

mrtravel wrote:
> Nonsense. Have you ever sat anywhere near the back of an MD80?

Nowhere near as bad as seating in the back of a pesky F28 with two very
loud noise makers next to both your ears.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 14:33:50 -0500, "TMOliver"
<tmoliverjrFIX.RemoveThis@hot.rr.comFIX> wrote:

>
>"Frank F. Matthews" <matthews942.RemoveThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:470c2e65$0$15372$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
>>
>>
>> mrtravel wrote:
>>
>>> Tchiowa wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I don't know the Korean Air configuration but you'd have to be
>>>> *behind* the engines for noise to be a problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> Nonsense. Have you ever sat anywhere near the back of an MD80?
>>
>> None of the jets I've flown come anywhere near a Super Connie.
>>
>
>Those 3350 TurboCompounds could resonate.....

Not to mention those supersonic propellor tips.

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

> >>> Nonsense. Have you ever sat anywhere near the back of an MD80?

> >> None of the jets I've flown come anywhere near a Super Connie.
> >Those 3350 TurboCompounds could resonate.....

> Not to mention those supersonic propellor tips.

Too young to have experienced the Constellation or Super Connie from
the inside, me; but a recent flight on one of Northwest's more
venerable DC-9's, in a seat so close to the port engine that it didn't
even have a window, made me glad that noise cancelling headphones have
come down in price.

I don't recall the rear seats in those planes as having been at all
bad when they were newer, but maybe I was just more enthralled with
the other experiences of flight and didn't mind the noise.

I'd bet that distance of engine noise in *most* of the cabin was
considered an advantage by the DC-9's designers, back in the late
50s-60s heyday of rear mounted engines. Probably still is, since (for
other reasons as well) it is the location of choice for business jets
and regional jets.

One model of those turboprop puddle jumpers used by the commuter
airlines had a giant exhaust pipe on the inboard side of each engine.
This caused people in certain seats, like mine, to wonder why they
didn't just rent a car in LA and drive to Santa Barbara. I don't
recall the type, and that was in the mid 80s so presumably they've
thought better of the layout by now.

--Joe
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating 

Nobody wrote:
> mrtravel wrote:
>> Nonsense. Have you ever sat anywhere near the back of an MD80?
>
> Nowhere near as bad as seating in the back of a pesky F28 with two very
> loud noise makers next to both your ears.

The F28 is so loud on takeoff you might think the rear door is open.
 >> Stay informed about: Engine Noise and Seating