A new European state one can visit

"Sarah Banick" <sbanick.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:Pu6dnRAS6L52CSTanZ2dnUVZ_h6hnZ2d@comcast.com...
>
> "Frank Hucklenbroich" <Hucklenbroich01.RemoveThis@aol.com> wrote in
> message news:15kjr54ovpp82.jj8s8sl92djc$.dlg@40tude.net...
>> Am Sun, 17 Feb 2008 22:45:54 +0000 schrieb
>> d4g4h4.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.ukDavid Horne,
>> _the_ chancellor:
>>
>>> The UK and France will certainly recognise Kosovo. I suspect
>>> the
>>> countries will be those with links to that area- didn't
>>> Greece have
>>> sympathy for the Serbs?
>>
>> Yes, they are both orthodox-christs.
>>
>> And the Greeks don't want Macedonia to become independent, as
>> they believe
>> it should be part of Greece (they have a province called
>> Macedonia in
>> Greece).
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Frank
>
> When I was in Bulgaria last fall, I made it a point to ask
> everyone (who spoke English) who(m) Macedonia belongs to. You
> can guess the answer There is a huge statue of Philip of
> Macedonia in the center of Plovdiv.
>
I'm not sure about the significance of that! There is a big
statue of Herman the German (he was the guy who wiped out the
army of Varus in the reign of Emperor Claudius) in New Ulm,
Minnesota!


--
Jim Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"William Black" <william.black.RemoveThis@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fpae0f$812$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>
> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgmsop.RemoveThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:fpaahm028b8@news2.newsguy.com...
>>
>>
>> Erick T. Barkhuis wrote:
>>
>>> William Black:
>>>
>>>>"Sarah Banick" <sbanick.RemoveThis@mindspring.com> wrote in message
>>>>news:P-CdnYS32NwoxyXanZ2dnUVZ_oOnnZ2d@comcast.com...
>>>>
>>>>>"Markku Grönroos" <kurkku.RemoveThis@hassuserveri.fi> wrote in message
>>>>>news:laRtj.298091$cH7.25031@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
>>>>>
>>>>>>Today Kosovo will be declared independent.
>>>>>
>>>>>Since Markku brought it up, I'm interested in hearing the European view
>>>>>of this.
>>>
>>>
>>>>It's far too small to be economically viable without the drugs trade.
>>>
>>>
>>> Well, Macedonia appears to be surviving, and isn't much larger than
>>> Kosovo. The population of both is estimated at about 2 million.
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW, how do Liechtenstein and Luxemburg survive?
>
> Dodgy banking.

I think the Luxemburgers will have aproblem with you calling their banking
dodgy.

>> Or Monaco?
>
> It doesn't.
>
> It's part of France.
>
> They pretend it isn't for the tourists.
>
> But it is...

It will have to be financially positive or the French wouldn't "play along".

tim
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g4h4.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1ich8hy.ne9qxc1rxuzmyN%d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk...
> tim (not at home) <tims_new_home.RemoveThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> "Markku Grönroos" <kurkku.RemoveThis@hassuserveri.fi> wrote in message
>> news:laRtj.298091$cH7.25031@reader1.news.saunalahti.fi...
>> > Today Kosovo will be declared independent.
>>
>> To change the subject slightly.
>>
>> Apparently, there are 5 EU countries who do not want to recognise Kosovo,
>> because they have their own problem regions that will be encouraged to
>> seek
>> independence.
>>
>> I'm strugglinge to get beyond guessing one (Spain).
>>
>> Any ideas anyone? I know that GB, has NI (and Scotland) and France has a
>> few problems, but I don't think that these have reached the point of
>> voting
>> themselve independence. And I'm sure that if the Walloons wanted
>> independence, they wouldn't need any encouragement.
>
> The UK and France will certainly recognise Kosovo. I suspect the
> countries will be those with links to that area- didn't Greece have
> sympathy for the Serbs?

Perhaps I didn't explain.

I was just interested in those that didn't want to recognise, purely because
it would legitimise the concept of regions voting themselves independence.

But perhaps this would be the claimed reason, when the real reason was less
politically acceptable.

tim
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

tim wrote on Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:45:02 +0100:


tna> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g4h4 RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk>
tna> wrote in message
news:1ich8hy.ne9qxc1rxuzmyN%d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk...
??>> tim (not at home) <tims_new_home RemoveThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
??>>
??>>> "Markku Grönroos" <kurkku RemoveThis @hassuserveri.fi> wrote in
??>>> message news:laRtj.298091$cH7.25031@reader1.news.saunalah
??>>> ti.fi...
??>>>> Today Kosovo will be declared independent.
??>>>
??>>> To change the subject slightly.
??>>>
??>>> Apparently, there are 5 EU countries who do not want to
??>>> recognise Kosovo, because they have their own problem
??>>> regions that will be encouraged to seek independence.
??>>>
??>>> I'm strugglinge to get beyond guessing one (Spain).
??>>>
??>>> Any ideas anyone? I know that GB, has NI (and Scotland)
??>>> and France has a few problems, but I don't think that
??>>> these have reached the point of voting themselve
??>>> independence. And I'm sure that if the Walloons
??>>> wanted independence, they wouldn't need any
??>>> encouragement.
??>>
??>> The UK and France will certainly recognise Kosovo. I
??>> suspect the countries will be those with links to that
??>> area- didn't Greece have sympathy for the Serbs?

tna> Perhaps I didn't explain.

tna> I was just interested in those that didn't want to
tna> recognise, purely because it would legitimise the concept
tna> of regions voting themselves independence.

tna> But perhaps this would be the claimed reason, when the
tna> real reason was less politically acceptable.

It's amazing how much fuss is being made about Kosovo. They
announced they would declare independence months ago. Did no-one
really believe them?

Although there are exceptions, Switzerland is an obvious one, it
is interesting that most viable countries have a sea coast and I
wonder how well Kosovo will succeed.

James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland

E-mail, with obvious alterations:
not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"Hatunen" <hatunen DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote in message
news:b1ijr3lgog3btq04jfu7cphpglf59ph6cs@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:20:33 -0000, "William Black"
> <william.black DeleteThis @hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Joseph Coulter" <seeLOOKATsig DeleteThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9A47C1C9BCA02yourvacationcomcastn@216.196.97.136...
>>
>>> People in this thread are getting all worked up over a really
>>> interesting
>>> historical phenomenon, The Balkanization of the Balkans!
>>
>>That's because the consequences of Balkanisation in that area can lead to
>>a
>>major European war.
>
> Probably only if the Austro-Hungarian Empire is brought back.
>

Not necessarily. The Serbs are historically backed by the Russians, and
Putin isn't too happy about this right now. The West, on the other hand, is
supporting independence. History has shown that you only need to light one
fuse in the Balkans to blow up a number of ethnic hatreds.

But the EU has taken care of that, right? We're all mature countries now who
must work together.
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"Iceman" <oneofcold.TakeThisOut@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:32e2c7e5-50a2-4f77-8888-481b7468e21e@e23g2000prf.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 17, 1:50 pm, Dusty Furtile Morrocan
> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>> On the particular moment of Sun, 17 Feb 2008 18:00:42 -0000 in
>> relation to Mary's disappointingly immaculate rumpy pumpy, "William
>> Black" <william.bl....TakeThisOut@hotmail.co.uk> put forth:
>>
>> >They're Muslim, banks are against their religion...
>>
>> Muslim?
>>
>> They are Albanians, which for some reason aren't part of Albania.
>
>
> A lot of the borders in Eastern Europe don't make sense from an ethnic
> perspective. They are the result of the back and forth feuding of
> Austria and Turkey over hundreds of years.

True, but you can't blame all of it on Austria and Turkey. They were
latecomers. Each of those countries had their own empires at some point or
another (Serbia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Greece) and they still believe all those
former territories are part of their nation's birthright, no matter how much
they overlap. For example, three cultures claim the land now called
Macedonia (Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia). When Tito was alive, he encouraged
that population to develop a Macedonian identity, but ask a Greek,
Bulgarian, or Serbian, and they'll tell you there are no "Macedonians."
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

On the particular moment of Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:20:33 -0000 in
relation to Mary's disappointingly immaculate rumpy pumpy, "William
Black" <william.black RemoveThis @hotmail.co.uk> put forth:

>
>"Joseph Coulter" <seeLOOKATsig RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
>news:Xns9A47C1C9BCA02yourvacationcomcastn@216.196.97.136...
>
>> People in this thread are getting all worked up over a really interesting
>> historical phenomenon, The Balkanization of the Balkans!
>
>That's because the consequences of Balkanisation in that area can lead to a
>major European war.

A war start in the Balkans? Perish the thought...
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"tim (not at home)" <tims_new_home.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:61tqm9F20fmomU1@mid.individual.net...
>
> "William Black" <william.black.DeleteThis@hotmail.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:fpae0f$812$1@registered.motzarella.org...
>>
>> "EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <evgmsop.DeleteThis@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:fpaahm028b8@news2.newsguy.com...

>>>> BTW, how do Liechtenstein and Luxemburg survive?
>>
>> Dodgy banking.
>
> I think the Luxemburgers will have aproblem with you calling their banking
> dodgy.

And you think I should care what they think?

They can sue me if they wish.

Adnan Khashoggi may operate his companies from Switzerland and Liechtenstein
but he banks in Luxemburg.

So do most of the dodgier end of the Arab countries, along with the
National Union of Mineworkers...

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"Hatunen" <hatunen RemoveThis @cox.net> wrote in message
news:b1ijr3lgog3btq04jfu7cphpglf59ph6cs@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:20:33 -0000, "William Black"
> <william.black RemoveThis @hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Joseph Coulter" <seeLOOKATsig RemoveThis @comcast.net> wrote in message
>>news:Xns9A47C1C9BCA02yourvacationcomcastn@216.196.97.136...
>>
>>> People in this thread are getting all worked up over a really
>>> interesting
>>> historical phenomenon, The Balkanization of the Balkans!
>>
>>That's because the consequences of Balkanisation in that area can lead to
>>a
>>major European war.
>
> Probably only if the Austro-Hungarian Empire is brought back.

Nobody really wants to find out...

Everyone is busy remembering the last time and wondering if bombing them all
back to the stone age would calm them down at all.

--
William Black


I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

On the particular moment of Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:41:16 -0800 (PST) in
relation to Mary's disappointingly immaculate rumpy pumpy, Iceman
<oneofcold.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> put forth:

>On Feb 18, 12:06 pm, "James Silverton" <not.jim.silver....DeleteThis@verizon.not>
>wrote:

>> It's amazing how much fuss is being made about Kosovo.
>
>
>Few people would really care, except for the fact that is a major
>diplomatic rift between the West and Russia.

They're used to it. They've been booted around by the powers for
centuries.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"Frank Hucklenbroich" <Hucklenbroich01.RemoveThis@aol.com> skrev i meddelandet
news:y8w9o3sp23ua.tj1i3h1adxrc$.dlg@40tude.net...
> Am Sun, 17 Feb 2008 17:46:32 -0000 schrieb William Black:
>
>> Luxemburg is odd, it used to need a commercial radio station with a huge
>> income to pay its way, but it is stable enough to manage a decent tourism
>> industry.
>
> In the "old days" about 20 years ago they made money from Germans who went
> there to buy cheap cigarettes and alcohol, as taxes on that stuff were
> much
> lower in Luxemburg. Right after crossing the border you could find huge
> stores selling cigarettes and liquor. You were only allowed to bring a
> certain amount over the border, so smuggling was rampant. Since its all EU
> this has disappeared mostly.
------------
On the contrary , "as it's all EU" you're allowed to bring with you any
amount as long as it's for your personal use. Those are the EU tax rules.
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

"James Silverton" <not.jim.silverton.DeleteThis@verizon.not> skrev i meddelandet
news:zWiuj.4283$0%3.3600@trnddc06...
> tim wrote on Mon, 18 Feb 2008 17:45:02 +0100:
>
>
> tna> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <d4g4h4.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk>
> tna> wrote in message news:1ich8hy.ne9qxc1rxuzmyN%d4g4h4@yahoo.co.uk...
> ??>> tim (not at home) <tims_new_home.DeleteThis@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> ??>>
> ??>>> "Markku Grönroos" <kurkku.DeleteThis@hassuserveri.fi> wrote in
> ??>>> message news:laRtj.298091$cH7.25031@reader1.news.saunalah
> ??>>> ti.fi...
> ??>>>> Today Kosovo will be declared independent.
> ??>>>
> ??>>> To change the subject slightly.
> ??>>>
> ??>>> Apparently, there are 5 EU countries who do not want to
> ??>>> recognise Kosovo, because they have their own problem
> ??>>> regions that will be encouraged to seek independence.
> ??>>>
> ??>>> I'm strugglinge to get beyond guessing one (Spain).
> ??>>>
> ??>>> Any ideas anyone? I know that GB, has NI (and Scotland)
> ??>>> and France has a few problems, but I don't think that
> ??>>> these have reached the point of voting themselve
> ??>>> independence. And I'm sure that if the Walloons
> ??>>> wanted independence, they wouldn't need any
> ??>>> encouragement.
> ??>>
> ??>> The UK and France will certainly recognise Kosovo. I
> ??>> suspect the countries will be those with links to that
> ??>> area- didn't Greece have sympathy for the Serbs?
>
> tna> Perhaps I didn't explain.
>
> tna> I was just interested in those that didn't want to
> tna> recognise, purely because it would legitimise the concept
> tna> of regions voting themselves independence.
>
> tna> But perhaps this would be the claimed reason, when the
> tna> real reason was less politically acceptable.
>
> It's amazing how much fuss is being made about Kosovo. They announced they
> would declare independence months ago. Did no-one really believe them?
>
> Although there are exceptions, Switzerland is an obvious one, it is
> interesting that most viable countries have a sea coast
---------
Do you know that Switzerland , by international treaties , have free access
to the Rhine being free for international transport. Same applies to Donau.
And the richest country in the world is without a sea coast ?
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit 

On Feb 19, 1:52 am, Keith Anderson <ke....DeleteThis@privacy.net> wrote:
> On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:47:37 -0500, "Sarah Banick"
>
>
>
>
>
> <sban....DeleteThis@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
> >"Hatunen" <hatu....DeleteThis@cox.net> wrote in message
> >news:b1ijr3lgog3btq04jfu7cphpglf59ph6cs@4ax.com...
> >> On Mon, 18 Feb 2008 11:20:33 -0000, "William Black"
> >> <william.bl....DeleteThis@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >>>"Joseph Coulter" <seeLOOKAT....DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>>news:Xns9A47C1C9BCA02yourvacationcomcastn@216.196.97.136...
>
> >>>> People in this thread are getting all worked up over a really
> >>>> interesting
> >>>> historical phenomenon, The Balkanization of the Balkans!
>
> >>>That's because the consequences of Balkanisation in that area can lead to
> >>>a
> >>>major European war.
>
> >> Probably only if the Austro-Hungarian Empire is brought back.
>
> >Not necessarily. The Serbs are historically backed by the Russians, and
> >Putin isn't too happy about this right now. The West, on the other hand, is
> >supporting independence. History has shown that you only need to light one
> >fuse in the Balkans to blow up a number of ethnic hatreds.
>
> >But the EU has taken care of that, right? We're all mature countries now who
> >must work together.
>
> They should all read Dervla Murphy's "Through the Embers of Chaos", I
> reckon.
>
> The Balkans are not black, nor white, but numerous shades of grey.
>
> Keith (formerly of Bristol UK)
> now moved to Berlin/nach Berlin umgezogen- Hide quoted text -
>

I used to like Dervla Murphy but then I got suspicious .... no matter
what country, however remote, or the time, she always gets a room for
the night. If there's no hotels, a friendly local puts her up. I just
don't believe it.

At least with Bryson, you know he's making stuff up for dramatic/
comedic effect. But I sometimes wonder if she's from the Chatwin
school of dissembling.

Cheers,
George W Russell
Bangalore
 >> Stay informed about: A new European state one can visit