Hotel Lanzhou China?

Alfred Molon wrote:
> In article <47a2093b$0$24398$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl>, Marion says...
>
>> In coming April my husband and I will fly to Lanzhou where we intend
>> to stay one night in a not too expensive hotel near the South Bus
>> Station from where we will go to Xiahe the next day.
>>
>> Can anyone of you recommend such a hotel? Price range USD 30-60 per
>> room/night would be nice. Of course I can find a hotel via Google,
>> but then I don't know where that hotel is situated. And our 1994 LP
>> is rather outdated
>
> It is easy to arrive in China without a hotel reservation and find a
> hotel for the price range you mentioned (= 20-40 Euro). Just book the
> hotel at the hotel booking counter of the airport. Even in the very
> unlikely event that there is no hotel booking counter at the airport
> in Lanzhou, you can always take a taxi and ask the driver to bring
> you to a hotel. Hotels in China are cheap.
> This is how I have been travelling in 2004-06 in China.
>
> You don't actually have to stay near the bus station, because you can
> take a taxi and taxis are cheap.
>
> For more information see my travelogues:
> http://www.molon.de/travelogues/China/2004/
> http://www.molon.de/travelogues/China/2005/
> http://www.molon.de/travelogues/China/2006/
>
> An excellent place where to get information is the Lonely Planet China
> forum at:
> http://www.lonelyplanet.com/thorntree/forum.jspa?forumID=19&keywordid=84

Thanks Alfred.

You are right that a taxi in China is rather cheap and that we don't have to
stay near the bus station. However, since we arrive early in the evening all
the way from Amsterdam via Chengdu in Lanzhou and like to travel to Xiahe
early the next morning, we like to stay in a hotel near the south bus
station . As far as we have read Lanzhou is not very interesting so we don't
like to stay there if not necessary. Therefore my question.

I will certainly have a look at your travelogues and the LP forum. Perhaps
we even have to buy our third China LP

Regards,
Marion
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

Alfred Molon <alfred_molon RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:

> Just book the
> hotel at the hotel booking counter of the airport.

This, of course, is the last thing you should do since it will guarantee
that your hotel costs more than necessary, not that hotel booking
counters are as common as Chinese airports as is being suggested.

Simply head by taxi towards the south bus station and keep your eyes
open. There's no need to book ahead, and there's no chance whatsoever
that LP China has kept up even wiht old hotels let alone new ones. There
are always hotels close to the long distance bus stations. Most are
among the more basic, but there's nearly always something smarter within
a short distance of the bus station. If you haven't seen anything by the
time you reach the bus station, in the unlikely event that you can't see
something around the bus station itself, go inside and you'll see
advertising for hotels there. There will also be a left luggage counter
if you are particularly overloaded.

The best price for a hotel is always found by turning up at the check-in
desk and asking for a lower price than the one first offered. No
knowledge of Mandarin is necessary--this is the first question any
Chinese asks, and is entirely expected. The prices will be clearly
posted on the wall or on a leaflet at reception. No one pays these
prices or anywhere near them for most of the year, except those who use
airport booking counters, that is.

If you want to get an idea of real prices and sample properties on-line,
your best choice is to search

http://www.ctrip.com

and

http://www.elong.com

which will show you at least some of the city's hotels with pictures and
other details. The discounts shown are surprising, but only, as
mentioned, because in fact these are what you can get for yourself, and
indeed often beat. Note that bookings are only taken 60 days ahead, so
to get some idea you'll need to enter dates in March.

There are, of course, dozens (if not hundreds) more hotels than those
listed, so again, you can just turn up and find something. If something
particularly appeals, Google its name to find better directions and its
location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzhou gives you some general, if
unreliable, information on Lanzhou (which is a highly polluted dump, by
the way) including some basic maps.

Peter N-H
The Oriental-List
http://www.datasinica.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

Thanks Peter. We know that Lanzhou is not The place to go, but in case our
Yangtse cruise with the combining internal flights doesn't work out as we
hope, we will go to Xiahe via Lanzhou. We won't like to stay long in Lanzhou
but we'll just arrive there by plane after our flight Ams-Chengdu. I think
it is a good idea just to take a taxi and look around for a nice hotel.
Perhaps also the taxi driver speaks enough English to take us to a nice
hotel. It is always surprising to see how much English they speak if they
can earn some kind of commission And otherwise we can try to use our
phrase book. That worked in the past in very wonderful ways.

Regards,
Marion

Peter Neville-Hadley wrote:
> Alfred Molon <alfred_molon DeleteThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Just book the
>> hotel at the hotel booking counter of the airport.
>
> This, of course, is the last thing you should do since it will
> guarantee that your hotel costs more than necessary, not that hotel
> booking counters are as common as Chinese airports as is being
> suggested.
>
> Simply head by taxi towards the south bus station and keep your eyes
> open. There's no need to book ahead, and there's no chance whatsoever
> that LP China has kept up even wiht old hotels let alone new ones.
> There are always hotels close to the long distance bus stations. Most
> are among the more basic, but there's nearly always something smarter
> within a short distance of the bus station. If you haven't seen
> anything by the time you reach the bus station, in the unlikely event
> that you can't see something around the bus station itself, go inside
> and you'll see advertising for hotels there. There will also be a
> left luggage counter if you are particularly overloaded.
>
> The best price for a hotel is always found by turning up at the
> check-in desk and asking for a lower price than the one first
> offered. No knowledge of Mandarin is necessary--this is the first
> question any Chinese asks, and is entirely expected. The prices will
> be clearly posted on the wall or on a leaflet at reception. No one
> pays these prices or anywhere near them for most of the year, except
> those who use airport booking counters, that is.
>
> If you want to get an idea of real prices and sample properties
> on-line, your best choice is to search
>
> http://www.ctrip.com
>
> and
>
> http://www.elong.com
>
> which will show you at least some of the city's hotels with pictures
> and other details. The discounts shown are surprising, but only, as
> mentioned, because in fact these are what you can get for yourself,
> and indeed often beat. Note that bookings are only taken 60 days
> ahead, so to get some idea you'll need to enter dates in March.
>
> There are, of course, dozens (if not hundreds) more hotels than those
> listed, so again, you can just turn up and find something. If
> something particularly appeals, Google its name to find better
> directions and its location.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzhou gives you some general, if
> unreliable, information on Lanzhou (which is a highly polluted dump,
> by the way) including some basic maps.
>
> Peter N-H
> The Oriental-List
> http://www.datasinica.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

That's poor advice Peter gave you. I can guarantee you that it is
absolutely no problem getting a good price at the airport counter (and
with a few exceptions I've always found a counter at the Chinese
airports I've been). I wouldn't walk around and look for a hotel, just
to perhaps save a couple of Euros, especially not when I have just
arrived from an intercontinental flight.

Also, at the airport it is more likely to find somebody who speaks
English and they have a selection of "international class" hotels to
choose from. These are hotels, typically starting at around 200 yuan for
a double room, with a certain minimum quality level. I guess you don't
want to have a Chinese style shared toilet, do you?

As for the taxi driver, you should only use one if there is no booking
counter at the airport, because in China most taxi drivers can't speak
English. Although actually most taxi drivers I met were friendly and
helpful.

In article <47a338f1$0$24403$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl>, Marion says...
> Thanks Peter. We know that Lanzhou is not The place to go, but in case our
> Yangtse cruise with the combining internal flights doesn't work out as we
> hope, we will go to Xiahe via Lanzhou. We won't like to stay long in Lanzhou
> but we'll just arrive there by plane after our flight Ams-Chengdu. I think
> it is a good idea just to take a taxi and look around for a nice hotel.
> Perhaps also the taxi driver speaks enough English to take us to a nice
> hotel. It is always surprising to see how much English they speak if they
> can earn some kind of commission And otherwise we can try to use our
> phrase book. That worked in the past in very wonderful ways.
>
> Regards,
> Marion
>
> Peter Neville-Hadley wrote:
> > Alfred Molon <alfred_molon RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Just book the
> >> hotel at the hotel booking counter of the airport.
> >
> > This, of course, is the last thing you should do since it will
> > guarantee that your hotel costs more than necessary, not that hotel
> > booking counters are as common as Chinese airports as is being
> > suggested.
> >
> > Simply head by taxi towards the south bus station and keep your eyes
> > open. There's no need to book ahead, and there's no chance whatsoever
> > that LP China has kept up even wiht old hotels let alone new ones.
> > There are always hotels close to the long distance bus stations. Most
> > are among the more basic, but there's nearly always something smarter
> > within a short distance of the bus station. If you haven't seen
> > anything by the time you reach the bus station, in the unlikely event
> > that you can't see something around the bus station itself, go inside
> > and you'll see advertising for hotels there. There will also be a
> > left luggage counter if you are particularly overloaded.
> >
> > The best price for a hotel is always found by turning up at the
> > check-in desk and asking for a lower price than the one first
> > offered. No knowledge of Mandarin is necessary--this is the first
> > question any Chinese asks, and is entirely expected. The prices will
> > be clearly posted on the wall or on a leaflet at reception. No one
> > pays these prices or anywhere near them for most of the year, except
> > those who use airport booking counters, that is.
> >
> > If you want to get an idea of real prices and sample properties
> > on-line, your best choice is to search
> >
> > http://www.ctrip.com
> >
> > and
> >
> > http://www.elong.com
> >
> > which will show you at least some of the city's hotels with pictures
> > and other details. The discounts shown are surprising, but only, as
> > mentioned, because in fact these are what you can get for yourself,
> > and indeed often beat. Note that bookings are only taken 60 days
> > ahead, so to get some idea you'll need to enter dates in March.
> >
> > There are, of course, dozens (if not hundreds) more hotels than those
> > listed, so again, you can just turn up and find something. If
> > something particularly appeals, Google its name to find better
> > directions and its location.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanzhou gives you some general, if
> > unreliable, information on Lanzhou (which is a highly polluted dump,
> > by the way) including some basic maps.
> >
> > Peter N-H
> > The Oriental-List
> > http://www.datasinica.com
>
>
>

--

Alfred Molon
------------------------------
Olympus 50X0, 8080, E3X0, E4X0, E5X0 and E3 forum at
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/MyOlympus/
http://myolympus.org/ photo sharing site
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

Marion <j.fahrenfort.TakeThisOut@tiscali.nl> wrote:

>I think
> it is a good idea just to take a taxi and look around for a nice hotel.
> Perhaps also the taxi driver speaks enough English to take us to a nice
> hotel.

That's fairly unlikely in somewhere like Lanzhou. I dare say things have
improved but I don't remember encountering a single English speaker last
time I was there. People pass through on their way northwest but Lanzhou
isn't exactly a tourist destination.

You'll also see advertising for hotels at the airport, of course, but
the best value for money is always at something that's just opened and
hasn't spent any money on advertising, which is pretty standard. Word of
mouth takes visitors elsewhere, and real room rates can be very steeply
discounted indeed.

Buy a map at the airport, compare it to your guidebook if you have one
so as to locate the south bus station and its name in characters and
show them to the taxi driver.

>It is always surprising to see how much English they speak if they
> can earn some kind of commission

This problem is only met with intermittently in China, and usually in
more touristy destinations. But if you're going to encounter any problem
with taxis it will be at the airport for sure (refusal to start meter,
complicated route). One of you should sit in the front with the map open
looking as if you know where you're going. It is, or used to be, more
than an hour into town (about 75km), so you might want to take the
airport bus instead. Unless things have changed this drops you at the
China Northwest Airlines office on Dong Gang Xi Lu and the south bus
station (if that's the Pingliang Lu one) is walkable from there. If it's
down by the railway station then that will be a short taxi ride.

A colleague of mine recommended a couple of hotels in that area a few
years ago, the JJ Sun Hotel (Jinjiang Yangguang Jiudian) on Dong Gang Xi
Lu just opposite the airline office (but a bit pricey, perhaps, but walk
in ans ask), the Pingliang Dasha just east of there down an alley to the
south (which was new then, and around ¥200). But just keep your eyes
peeled and pick something new. You can always leave one person sitting
on the luggage (e.g. in the lobby of the JJ Sun) while the other pops
round a few hotels, inspects a few rooms, and gets at least 30% off the
room rate. Somewhere like the JJ Sun should have an English speaker, and
if you tell them you can't afford their rate will almost certainly
mention other places that are cheaper (although their knowledge won't be
comprehensive or up to date), and even call them for you.

You can also try by phone, but even if you get a good English speaker
the room rate, although not as bad as that obtained by putting airport
hotel desks in the middle (they exist in order to rip-off the ignorant,
and promote the hotels that give them the biggest kick-back rather than
the ones that would be best value for you), won't be as good as turning
up yourself.

In the end it's a matter of what you consider convenient, and what seems
just too much effort.

If you have the time, the Provincial Museum is worth a visit to see the
famous Flying Horse of Gansu, although (like much of what you see in
many Chinese museums) this is a replica.

Good luck with the trip. It would be interesting to hear what Xiahe is
like now--it's a few years since I was there.

Peter N-H
http://www.datasinica.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

Thanks Peter and Alfred,

I have to admit that I agree to both of you. It probably will be cheaper to
show up at a hotel, but after a long flight it is also nice to know where to
go. We don't really like to go to Lanzhou; we hope that the Yangtse cruise
and the national flights will work out (our travel agent is very busy with
it) and then we will fly to Chongqing, cruise and fly from Yichang to Xining
to take the train from there to Lhasa. But if this won't work out, we will
fly from Chengdu directly to Lanzhou and will thereafter visit Xiahe and
from there to Xining by bus. We will see. Anyway thanks again for all your
help. We will keep all your suggestions in mind and yes, Peter, we will
certainly sit next to the driver with a map and do as if we know the way
. And if there is indeed an airport bus, we will probably take that one.

Best regards,
Marion

Peter Neville-Hadley wrote:
> Marion <j.fahrenfort RemoveThis @tiscali.nl> wrote:
>
>> I think
>> it is a good idea just to take a taxi and look around for a nice
>> hotel. Perhaps also the taxi driver speaks enough English to take us
>> to a nice hotel.
>
> That's fairly unlikely in somewhere like Lanzhou. I dare say things
> have improved but I don't remember encountering a single English
> speaker last time I was there. People pass through on their way
> northwest but Lanzhou isn't exactly a tourist destination.
>
> You'll also see advertising for hotels at the airport, of course, but
> the best value for money is always at something that's just opened and
> hasn't spent any money on advertising, which is pretty standard. Word
> of mouth takes visitors elsewhere, and real room rates can be very
> steeply discounted indeed.
>
> Buy a map at the airport, compare it to your guidebook if you have one
> so as to locate the south bus station and its name in characters and
> show them to the taxi driver.
>
>> It is always surprising to see how much English they speak if they
>> can earn some kind of commission
>
> This problem is only met with intermittently in China, and usually in
> more touristy destinations. But if you're going to encounter any
> problem with taxis it will be at the airport for sure (refusal to
> start meter, complicated route). One of you should sit in the front
> with the map open looking as if you know where you're going. It is,
> or used to be, more than an hour into town (about 75km), so you might
> want to take the airport bus instead. Unless things have changed this
> drops you at the China Northwest Airlines office on Dong Gang Xi Lu
> and the south bus station (if that's the Pingliang Lu one) is
> walkable from there. If it's down by the railway station then that
> will be a short taxi ride.
>
> A colleague of mine recommended a couple of hotels in that area a few
> years ago, the JJ Sun Hotel (Jinjiang Yangguang Jiudian) on Dong Gang
> Xi Lu just opposite the airline office (but a bit pricey, perhaps,
> but walk in ans ask), the Pingliang Dasha just east of there down an
> alley to the south (which was new then, and around ¥200). But just
> keep your eyes peeled and pick something new. You can always leave
> one person sitting on the luggage (e.g. in the lobby of the JJ Sun)
> while the other pops round a few hotels, inspects a few rooms, and
> gets at least 30% off the room rate. Somewhere like the JJ Sun should
> have an English speaker, and if you tell them you can't afford their
> rate will almost certainly mention other places that are cheaper
> (although their knowledge won't be comprehensive or up to date), and
> even call them for you.
>
> You can also try by phone, but even if you get a good English speaker
> the room rate, although not as bad as that obtained by putting airport
> hotel desks in the middle (they exist in order to rip-off the
> ignorant, and promote the hotels that give them the biggest kick-back
> rather than the ones that would be best value for you), won't be as
> good as turning up yourself.
>
> In the end it's a matter of what you consider convenient, and what
> seems just too much effort.
>
> If you have the time, the Provincial Museum is worth a visit to see
> the famous Flying Horse of Gansu, although (like much of what you see
> in many Chinese museums) this is a replica.
>
> Good luck with the trip. It would be interesting to hear what Xiahe is
> like now--it's a few years since I was there.
>
> Peter N-H
> http://www.datasinica.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

In article <47a46632$0$24402$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl>, Marion says...

> It probably will be cheaper to
> show up at a hotel,

I have my doubts about that. Typically if you show up at a hotel without
a reservation, they will rip you off.
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

Marion <j.fahrenfort.DeleteThis@tiscali.nl> wrote:

> I have to admit that I agree to both of you. It probably will be cheaper to
> show up at a hotel, but after a long flight it is also nice to know where to
> go. We don't really like to go to Lanzhou; we hope that the Yangtse cruise
> and the national flights will work out (our travel agent is very busy with
> it)

Again, you'd pay much less (often dramatically less) by just buying your
flights as you go. Prices actually paid are well below the official
rates published on websites, and domestic flights often don't appear on
international computer systems. Agents in your own country if they can
obtain some of these flights at all will do so through CITS which will
mark them up substantially and then no doubt the agent will add his own
overhead.

But if you feel you must have everything booked in advance then you
must. However it's easy to get around without doing so.

> visit Xiahe and
> from there to Xining by bus.

It's a few years since I did it, but I was going to suggest you took
this route since especially the first section from Xiahe is very pretty
on a winding country road (although I hear it's been upgraded).

Don't forget that you will not be allowed to buy a ticket for the Lhasa
train without already holding a Tibet permit (yaoxing ka). If you don't
know where one of these can be obtained in Xining make sure you find out
before you leave, and allow sufficient time and cash for it.

Alfred Molon <alfred_molon.DeleteThis@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > It probably will be cheaper to
> > show up at a hotel,
>
> I have my doubts about that. Typically if you show up at a hotel without
> a reservation, they will rip you off.

Unfortunately having 'doubts' doesn't alter the facts, most Chinese
hotel bookings are walk-in, and reservations when made (inevitably for
higher rates) at other than foreign-run hotels will be ignored if the
hotel fills up and there's someone there at the desk waving cash.

'Typically' (99%+ of cases) official room rates are posted on the wall
or are on leaflets in a neat stack at reception. Usually a discount
(10-30%) is offered immediately, and it's merely a question from there
of treating the whole thing the same way as if you were shopping at a
market, only since there's been a commonly agreed base price to start
with and tonight's empty rooms cannot be sold tomorrow, an agreeable
result is almost inevitable. Always use a smile, and make the experience
pleasant, and looking apologetically disappointed and going to walk out
will confirm whether you have obtained the lowest price that you're
going to get that night.

Only the very foolish tourist or those who happen to be travelling at
peak periods, or those who book through airport hotel desks, get 'ripped
off' or pay anything close to published prices. Discounts of 10% are
automatic, 30% are almost standard, of 50% common, of 70% not unheard
of.

Airport hotel desks, where they exist (which is very far indeed from
everywhere) can be useful to get some idea of availability, but of
course they only push the hotels that will give them a cut, the hotels
giving them the biggest cut are the ones they push most, your only
knowledge of the quality of the room is from pictures that may be
several years old, and of course you'll be the one paying their cut,
which you could avoid by going to the hotel yourself.

In short airport hotel booking desks are for the naive and unwary, and
even those determined to book in advance (which in some cases is just
unavoidable) would be best to book:

a) For familiar foreign-brand top-quality names through the website of
the hotel itself

b) For the new breed of smart 'economy' hotels such as Jinjiang Inn,
Motel168, etc. through their websites or toll-free lines (once in China)
but assistance of a Mandarin speaker is needed in either case

c) Through ctrip or elong or similar for everything else, knowing that a
little more than necessary may be paid, being aware that again hotel
descriptions are sometimes wildly off and that hotels that offer the
sites the most are the ones pushed first, and that bookings even when
confirmed are not always found to be there (in fact quite commonly are
not). Receptionists occasionally also ask you to forego your existing
reservation, and book you under a different name but for a lower price.
Sometimes those who use these reservation systems begin by bargaining at
the desk on arrival, and if (usually when) they gain a lower price take
that and cancel the on-line booking. Paying up front on-line is not
recommended. Refunds can be very slow to arrive indeed even when
cancellations are made a long time in advance.

Peter N-H
http://www.datasinica.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

Hi guys,

Please thanks again for all your help, but let us keep nice and friendly.
You have helped me and my husband a lot.

In the past we went to (West) China and Tibet without any bookings in
advance, but if one of the partners can't walk very easily any longer, you
don't have so much time to do everything by bus as we did before and since
we have already booked (for all these reasons) the train to Lhasa incl
permits and a Tibetan/Dutch organized landcruiser trip back to Zhongdian, we
also might prefer to book a hotel in Lanzhou in advance through one of those
internet sites. Let's hope we won't even need it.

As to flights in China, yes Peter, it is indeed difficult to arrange those
things from Amsterdam, but sometimes you just have to try to do that to be
certain that you are in the right time on the right spot. We only have six
days to fly from Chengdu to Chongqing, make our cruise, fly from Yichang via
e.g. Xi'an to Xining, check in for our train and off we go. We still hope
that this will all work out. Kuoni is doing its utmost Expensive, yes,
but normally reliable, so far.

We'll see how our holiday will work out. We are certain that it will be
great, exciting and still a bit energetic and adventurous. Not as in 2000
when we were between the very first new tourists how travelled to Litang and
from there south to Zhongdian by minibus when the road was closed for normal
traffic but at least not common to every European tourist.

Thanks again for every suggestion, help, ideas etc. You can see how we loved
our holiday in a couple of months on our website http://www.fahrenfort.nl .
Enjoy it then.

Best regards,
Marion



Peter Neville-Hadley wrote:
> Marion <j.fahrenfort RemoveThis @tiscali.nl> wrote:
>
>> I have to admit that I agree to both of you. It probably will be
>> cheaper to show up at a hotel, but after a long flight it is also
>> nice to know where to go. We don't really like to go to Lanzhou; we
>> hope that the Yangtse cruise and the national flights will work out
>> (our travel agent is very busy with it)
>
> Again, you'd pay much less (often dramatically less) by just buying
> your flights as you go. Prices actually paid are well below the
> official rates published on websites, and domestic flights often
> don't appear on international computer systems. Agents in your own
> country if they can obtain some of these flights at all will do so
> through CITS which will mark them up substantially and then no doubt
> the agent will add his own overhead.
>
> But if you feel you must have everything booked in advance then you
> must. However it's easy to get around without doing so.
>
>> visit Xiahe and
>> from there to Xining by bus.
>
> It's a few years since I did it, but I was going to suggest you took
> this route since especially the first section from Xiahe is very
> pretty on a winding country road (although I hear it's been upgraded).
>
> Don't forget that you will not be allowed to buy a ticket for the
> Lhasa train without already holding a Tibet permit (yaoxing ka). If
> you don't know where one of these can be obtained in Xining make sure
> you find out before you leave, and allow sufficient time and cash for
> it.
>
> Alfred Molon <alfred_molon RemoveThis @yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>> It probably will be cheaper to
>>> show up at a hotel,
>>
>> I have my doubts about that. Typically if you show up at a hotel
>> without
>> a reservation, they will rip you off.
>
> Unfortunately having 'doubts' doesn't alter the facts, most Chinese
> hotel bookings are walk-in, and reservations when made (inevitably for
> higher rates) at other than foreign-run hotels will be ignored if the
> hotel fills up and there's someone there at the desk waving cash.
>
> 'Typically' (99%+ of cases) official room rates are posted on the wall
> or are on leaflets in a neat stack at reception. Usually a discount
> (10-30%) is offered immediately, and it's merely a question from there
> of treating the whole thing the same way as if you were shopping at a
> market, only since there's been a commonly agreed base price to start
> with and tonight's empty rooms cannot be sold tomorrow, an agreeable
> result is almost inevitable. Always use a smile, and make the
> experience pleasant, and looking apologetically disappointed and
> going to walk out will confirm whether you have obtained the lowest
> price that you're going to get that night.
>
> Only the very foolish tourist or those who happen to be travelling at
> peak periods, or those who book through airport hotel desks, get
> 'ripped off' or pay anything close to published prices. Discounts of
> 10% are automatic, 30% are almost standard, of 50% common, of 70% not
> unheard of.
>
> Airport hotel desks, where they exist (which is very far indeed from
> everywhere) can be useful to get some idea of availability, but of
> course they only push the hotels that will give them a cut, the hotels
> giving them the biggest cut are the ones they push most, your only
> knowledge of the quality of the room is from pictures that may be
> several years old, and of course you'll be the one paying their cut,
> which you could avoid by going to the hotel yourself.
>
> In short airport hotel booking desks are for the naive and unwary, and
> even those determined to book in advance (which in some cases is just
> unavoidable) would be best to book:
>
> a) For familiar foreign-brand top-quality names through the website of
> the hotel itself
>
> b) For the new breed of smart 'economy' hotels such as Jinjiang Inn,
> Motel168, etc. through their websites or toll-free lines (once in
> China) but assistance of a Mandarin speaker is needed in either case
>
> c) Through ctrip or elong or similar for everything else, knowing
> that a little more than necessary may be paid, being aware that again
> hotel descriptions are sometimes wildly off and that hotels that
> offer the sites the most are the ones pushed first, and that bookings
> even when confirmed are not always found to be there (in fact quite
> commonly are not). Receptionists occasionally also ask you to forego
> your existing reservation, and book you under a different name but
> for a lower price. Sometimes those who use these reservation systems
> begin by bargaining at the desk on arrival, and if (usually when)
> they gain a lower price take that and cancel the on-line booking.
> Paying up front on-line is not recommended. Refunds can be very slow
> to arrive indeed even when cancellations are made a long time in
> advance.
>
> Peter N-H
> http://www.datasinica.com
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China? 

In article <47a5e4c6$0$24414$5fc3050@news.tiscali.nl>, Marion says...

> Please thanks again for all your help, but let us keep nice and friendly.

Oops... is somebody not being nice and friendly?

> As to flights in China, yes Peter, it is indeed difficult to arrange those
> things from Amsterdam, but sometimes you just have to try to do that to be
> certain that you are in the right time on the right spot. We only have six
> days to fly from Chengdu to Chongqing, make our cruise, fly from Yichang via
> e.g. Xi'an to Xining, check in for our train and off we go. We still hope
> that this will all work out. Kuoni is doing its utmost Expensive, yes,
> but normally reliable, so far.

It's my experience that unless you are travelling during a Chinese peak
period (such as for instance Chinese New Year or the first October week
when the whole of China is on the move), it's no problem booking flights
locally in China on a very short term (e.g. book in the morning and fly
in the evening). I've been travelling this way on very tight schedules
in my second and third trip to China - see the travelogues.

Also, what I have understood is that in China they have list prices and
a discount system. I might be wrong, but I think the discounts (30%-70%
of the list price) are only available in China. See here for instance:
http://www.molon.de/travelogues/China/2006/part2.html#0110

Flight Shenzhen-Urumqi purchased for 2140 yuan in a local travel agency;
it cost 2840 yuan on the China Southern website.

Most of the time I would book the local flights in the travel agency of
the hotel I was staying. Only in a few cases I had to look for an
external travel agency.
--

Alfred Molon
http://www.molon.de - Photos of Asia, Africa and Europe
 >> Stay informed about: Hotel Lanzhou China?