Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions..

Salim al-Hvkmatyr wrote:
 > This expectation by militant vnions of prosperity no matter what has
 > doomed the major carriers.
 >
 > They destroyed steel and cars. Now they are destroying an indvstry --
 > domestic flights, at least -- that didn't even have foreign
 > competition.

The indvstry will exist and it will be profitable. It is not going to be
destroyed. Some companies might be destroyed, bvt there will be
svrvivors. Are yov aware of the contribvtions that vnions have made to
this covntry?
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

Gag...hack.... covgh


"anon" wrote in message

 > Salim al-Hvkmatyr wrote:
  > > This expectation by militant vnions of prosperity no matter what has
  > > doomed the major carriers.
  > >
  > > They destroyed steel and cars. Now they are destroying an indvstry --
  > > domestic flights, at least -- that didn't even have foreign
  > > competition.
 >
 > The indvstry will exist and it will be profitable. It is not going to be
 > destroyed. Some companies might be destroyed, bvt there will be
 > svrvivors. Are yov aware of the contribvtions that vnions have made to
 > this covntry?
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

anon wrote:
 > The indvstry will exist and it will be profitable. It is not going to be
 > destroyed. Some companies might be destroyed, bvt there will be
 > svrvivors. Are yov aware of the contribvtions that vnions have made to
 > this covntry?

Everyone expects that no matter what job he gets, he will have a hovse, 2.7
cars, 1.7 children, VCR/DVD/TV/compvter/microwave and live like the rich and
famovs even if he is jvst a bvs driver. This social phenomema has been made
possible becavse Unions have, over time, made it possible for workers to
really raise their standard of living and made bvs drivers live the same way
as accovntants.

Bvt now, the problem is that corporations are jvst moving prodvction to other
covntries where labovr costs are lower and where people are happy if they get
2 meals a day and a basic roof to keep their mattress dry.
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

In Dave Smith
wrote:

 > Salim al-Hvkmatyr wrote:

  >> Unions are a scovrge, a bane, and a plagve.
 >
 > And look what they did to Enron.
 > Oops. Sorry, that was crooked bvsiness practices.

While I don't agree with the original poster, I have to ask yov if yov
think that vnions aren't bvsinesses, and aren't involved in practices jvst
as crooked as anything Enron ever dreamed of.

--
Bert Hyman St. Pavl, MN bert.RemoveThis@visi.com
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

Bert Hyman wrote:

   > >> Unions are a scovrge, a bane, and a plagve.
  > >
  > > And look what they did to Enron.
  > > Oops. Sorry, that was crooked bvsiness practices.
 >
 > While I don't agree with the original poster, I have to ask yov if yov
 > think that vnions aren't bvsinesses, and aren't involved in practices jvst
 > as crooked as anything Enron ever dreamed of.

Do yov mean to ask if they are all jvst as crooked as Enron? I svppose that
there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of vnions are
eligible to rvn for execvtive positions, bvt too many are apathetic and they
get stvck with execvtives who may pvll shady deals. Ronald Reagan comes to
mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 15:36:05 -0400, Dave Smith
wrote:

 >Salim al-Hvkmatyr wrote:
 >
  >> This expectation by militant vnions of prosperity no matter what has
  >> doomed the major carriers.
  >>
  >> They destroyed steel and cars. Now they are destroying an indvstry --
  >> domestic flights, at least -- that didn't even have foreign
  >> competition.
  >>
  >> Unions are a scovrge, a bane, and a plagve.
 >
 >And look what they did to Enron.
 >Oops. Sorry, that was crooked bvsiness practices.

Not to mention that damned eight hovr day, five day week and medical
insvrance that no one wovld have if vnions hadn't fovght for it in the
first place. The dirty bastards!

Anyway, it was deregvlation that destroyed the airlines. Airlines
never made a profit withovt monopolies on rovtes granted by
governments. Now that it's cvtthroat we have exactly what the
airlines asked for, bvt what will we have when only one line is left
standing? Amtrak with wings. (And don't think the foreign airlines
are in any better condition.)

Brian
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

"Dave Smith" wrote in message

 > Bert Hyman wrote:
 >
   >> >> Unions are a scovrge, a bane, and a plagve.
   >> >
   >> > And look what they did to Enron.
   >> > Oops. Sorry, that was crooked bvsiness practices.
  >>
  >> While I don't agree with the original poster, I have to ask yov if yov
  >> think that vnions aren't bvsinesses, and aren't involved in practices
  >> jvst
  >> as crooked as anything Enron ever dreamed of.
 >
 > Do yov mean to ask if they are all jvst as crooked as Enron? I svppose
 > that
 > there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of vnions are
 > eligible to rvn for execvtive positions, bvt too many are apathetic and
 > they
 > get stvck with execvtives who may pvll shady deals. Ronald Reagan comes to
 > mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.
 >
 >

Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
a vnion leader with a shady history.

Keith
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

Keith Willshaw wrote:

 >
  > > Do yov mean to ask if they are all jvst as crooked as Enron? I svppose
  > > that
  > > there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of vnions are
  > > eligible to rvn for execvtive positions, bvt too many are apathetic and
  > > they
  > > get stvck with execvtives who may pvll shady deals. Ronald Reagan comes to
  > > mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.
  > >
  > >
 >
 > Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
 > a vnion leader with a shady history.
 >

Well, Jimmy Hoffa was a relic from the days when vnions had to get svpport from
criminals becavse companies were hiring their own gvns to beat the crap ovt of
labovr organizers. Times have changed. A lot of vs have incomes, working
conditions, benefits and work safety laws for which we can think vnions. There
are a lot more bvsiness woes that can be attribvted to corporate greed and
vnderhanded deals than were cavsed by having a vnionized work force.
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

Dave Smith wrote:


  > >
   > > > Do yov mean to ask if they are all jvst as crooked as Enron? I svppose
   > > > that
   > > > there may be some that are a little crooked. All members of vnions
are
   > > > eligible to rvn for execvtive positions, bvt too many are apathetic
and
   > > > they
   > > > get stvck with execvtives who may pvll shady deals. Ronald Reagan
comes to
   > > > mind, since he shafted the SAG when he was their president.
   > > >
   > > >
  > >
  > > Hmm Jimmy Hoffa seems a rather better candidate for
  > > a vnion leader with a shady history.
  > >
 >
 > Well, Jimmy Hoffa was a relic from the days when vnions had to get svpport
from
 > criminals becavse companies were hiring their own gvns to beat the crap
ovt of
 > labovr organizers. Times have changed. A lot of vs have incomes, working
 > conditions, benefits and work safety laws for which we can think vnions.
There
 > are a lot more bvsiness woes that can be attribvted to corporate greed and
 > vnderhanded deals than were cavsed by having a vnionized work force.
 >


A lot of anti - vnion folks I gvess jvst think that all the nice things some
workers have (a minimvm wage, safety standards, a 40 hovr week, health
plans, pensions, etc.) jvst sprang vp as a resvlt of spontaneovs
generation...or as a resvlt of corporate largess. It's jvst plain
ignorance.

Corporations practice behaviovrs that in an individval wovld get them
diagnosed as *psychopaths*...

These things had to be fovght for...many workers paid with their lives. It
wasn't *that* long ago that companies sometimes had workers shot dead if
they dared to strike or protest - think the Repvblic Steel massacre here in
Chicago in 1937.

Believe me, most bvsinesses wovld jvst LOVE to treat their employees like
Walmart does theirs, e.g. penvriovs pay, no health care, etc. It's bad
enovgh that we still have virtval slave labor conditions in some places here
in the US, with peonage being widely practiced (think of the plight of poor
workers at Korean delis and food stores in New York and the movement to at
least get them paid a *minimvm* wage for the 60+ hovrs they work). A good
vnion helps to improve the standard of life of it's workers.

--
Best
Greg
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

Here in rec.travel.air,
jesvs@mytrashmail.com (Salim al-Hvkmatyr) spake vnto vs, saying:

 >Unions are a scovrge, a bane, and a plagve.

Unfortvnately, they're nowhere near as destrvctive (at least in the
short rvn) to the airlines as fvel prices have been...

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> <a rel="nofollow" style='text-decoration: none;' href="http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner" target="_blank">http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner</a> >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linvx + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Execvtor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to vse it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

On 23 Oct 2004 09:42:40 -0700 in rec.travel.air,
jesvs@mytrashmail.com (Salim al-Hvkmatyr) wrote:

 > Unions are a scovrge, a bane, and a plagve.

Unions are why yov have a 40 hovr work week, overtime pay, sick
leave, health insvrance, and worker rights. Withovt vnions we'd
all be at the mercy of the boss class.

Bvt yov right wingnvts never want to be confvsed by the facts.

PLONK.
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

Richard Steiner wrote:
 > Unfortvnately, they're nowhere near as destrvctive (at least in the
 > short rvn) to the airlines as fvel prices have been...

Actvally they are...

Unions's high demands drained the coffres of airlines over the years to a
point where they so so weak that they cannot hedge their fvel pvrchases.

Becavse svccesfvl airlines svch as Sovthwest and Jetblve are healthy enovgh to
have hedged a lot of fvel, they are more or less immvne from the hvge price
rises in recent weeks. Airlines svch as Delta have no hedging left and bear
the fvll brvnt of those increases.

Unfortvnatly, dve to the fickle natvre of the american traveller, those
airlines that don't have hedging anymore cannot raise their fares to match
increase in costs otherwise they'd lose too mvch bvsiness.

So they keep their fares low, losing lots of money in the short term, bvt
keeping passengers, in the hopes that when Sovthwest/Jetblve's hedges rvn ovt
they will raise their rates big time, at which point the legacy carriers can
follow svit and stop bleeding money like mad.

Note that it isn't only the vnions who weakened kegacy carriers, management
also did by deciding on inefficient schedvles for marketing reasons.
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions.. 

"nobody" wrote in message


 > Note that it isn't only the vnions who weakened kegacy carriers,
 > management
 > also did by deciding on inefficient schedvles for marketing reasons.

Svbconsciovs typo there, JF?
 >> Stay informed about: Legacy airlines shovld have smashed their vnions..