More Monorail Bashing

salmoneous.DeleteThis@aol.com wrote:

> which, now that's it's built, it actually reasonably successful

hows that?

--tr
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> > which, now that's it's built, it actually reasonably successful
>
> hows that?
>
> --tr

Millions of happy customers and tons of positive cash flows =
reasonably successful, don't you think? The problem is the idiots who
built the thing projected even more millions and can't afford to pay
back the money they borrowed.
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"Walt" <none RemoveThis @none.void> wrote in message
news:030220081229410725%none@none.void...
> LVRJ columnist says tear it down...
>
> http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/15155121.html
>
> --- Walt

I read that article this morning in my slightly soggy newspaper. I think
they should build a high-speed maglev bullet train that runs down the center
of the strip. That way you could go from Mandalay Bay to the Sahara in less
than three seconds. It could be funded by VP machines placed in strategic
locations in the train cars. If they set the pay tables correctly, you'd
lose all your money in less time than it takes to get up the strip.
Eventually it could connect to McCarran airport, the new Ivanpah airport,
and, ultimately, Mexico. Guadalajara to Mandalay in 40 minutes. Think of the
possibilities!

</end sarcasm>

Mr.D

(it's good to be back)
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On Feb 3, 10:52 am, salmone....TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote:

> The guy's an idiot. (Or at least his column is). People need to
> separate the monorail itself - which, now that's it's built, it
> actually reasonably successful - with the moronic financing/
> projections that was behind it's building.

Well, I don't agree that it's reasonably successful. I think it is a
failure compared to its projections as well as a failure for traffic
mitigation and emissions reduction. But, it is suffering from what
many monorail projects before it did. I actually quit working for a
public agency many years ago when they wanted to fudge the models I
was building to estimate rail ridership. Everyone else was doing it,
and the result was failures like Dallas and Miami. In all those
cases, the fudging was for the sake of federal funding. In the
monorail's case, the fudging was for bonding.

I agree that it would be stupid to tear it down, though. The
infrastructure is there and is sound. Like Sal said, it just needs to
get out from under the bonds by going belly up. With no interest debt
and a fresh start, it could possibly be a break even to profitable
business. The problem, though, is it has no hope of finding funding
to expand, and it won't generate enough revenue to finance it itself.

Matt
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I think they did a horrible job of marketing the monorail from the
start........mainly the outrageous fares they charged per person. They
should have done more free rides or 2-for1 promotions to encourage
people to try and ride. I think $2.50 is a fair price and a $4 day
pass is reasonable place to start.

----
http://www.moviesitearchive.com


On Feb 3, 9:29 am, Walt <n... RemoveThis @none.void> wrote:
> LVRJ columnist says tear it down...
>
> http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/15155121.html
>
> --- Walt
 >> Stay informed about: More Monorail Bashing 

> Well, I don't agree that it's reasonably successful. I think it is a
> failure compared to its projections as well as a failure for traffic
> mitigation and emissions reduction. But, it is suffering from what
> many monorail projects before it did. I actually quit working for a
> public agency many years ago when they wanted to fudge the models I
> was building to estimate rail ridership. Everyone else was doing it,
> and the result was failures like Dallas and Miami. In all those
> cases, the fudging was for the sake of federal funding. In the
> monorail's case, the fudging was for bonding.

The thing is, everyone knew (or had to know) the projections were
batshit crazy. In a town with 100,000 cab rides a day, they were going
to get 50,000 monorail rides? (I don't remember if those were the
numbers - but I do remember the ratio cab rides to projected monorail
rides was completely out of whack).

I gotta believe the goal was to get the thing built, and then hope for
some sort of public bailout.

As for a failure - first, you can't judge it for not living up to
expectations. I haven't met my mom's expectations (POTUS *and* Nobel-
prize winning heart surgeon) but that doesn't make me a failure. And
I've got to beleive the 8 million rides on the monorail had some
positive impact on traffic and emissions.
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> Millions of happy customers and tons of positive cash flows =
> reasonably successful, don't you think? The problem is the idiots who
> built the thing projected even more millions and can't afford to pay
> back the money they borrowed.

That's been a known fact for years. The question is: once they default,
and they will, who is going to be the big loser for backing this deal?

The bonds are insured, but apparently the company insuring them also
has major problems.

Once the dust settles and the monorail is free of the debt, it will be a
profitable entity.

Pete
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Thwe problem with the Monorail is that it wasn't started at the airport.
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I still say they should have tried to promote it as a quick, inexpensive
way to get from the Sahara/Hilton to the MGM. Whether you like it or
not, I can't think of a cheaper or faster way to get from the MGM to the
LV Hilton.

However, to promote it as a great way to casino hop up & down the strip
is dumb. Yeah, like I'm going to take the monorail from the Flamingo to
Harrahs? That's a good one.

Cameron
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On Feb 3, 2:42 pm, salmone....TakeThisOut@aol.com wrote:

> As for a failure - first, you can't judge it for not living up to
> expectations.

Actually, I am pretty sure that is what defines a failure: failing to
achieve or meet expectations.

> I haven't met my mom's expectations (POTUS *and* Nobel-
> prize winning heart surgeon) but that doesn't make me a failure. And
> I've got to beleive the 8 million rides on the monorail had some
> positive impact on traffic and emissions.

To your mom you are a failure. Against those goals you are. Not
criticizing, I'm a failure to my mom too. A huge, heartbreaking
disappointment, if you believe her daily voicemail messages.

There is much more to measuring mitigation than the number of trips
made on it. such as those trips as a percentage of all trips, the
emission per passenger, whether those people don't use personal
vehicles at all because of the monorail, how many trips they make each
day, what the mitigation could be from other alternatives (e.g. the
Deuce is a vastly more successful mitigation strategy), the cost in
dollars per trip (not passenger cost, but cost of service from the
provider and society's perspective), what those people would do if not
for the monorail (e.g. would they walk, use bus, take cab, drive
themselves, not take the trip...). By most measurable accounts, it is
decidedly not a success.

Matt
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"Walt" <none.RemoveThis@none.void> wrote in message
news:030220081229410725%none@none.void...
> LVRJ columnist says tear it down...
>
> http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/15155121.html
>
> --- Walt

In my opinion the monorail will never be successful. My wife and I, along
with another couple visited Vegas last September and stayed at the Mandalay
Bay, which meant that we had to take public transportation almost every
where we went during the week. At first we took the CAT down the strip
which was reasonably priced and ran a regular schedule. However it was
slow, stopping at every stop and dealing with the traffic on the strip.

After the CAT we took the monorail, which proved to be the wrong decision.
We paid $5 each for a one way trip, walked a long way from the Bay to the
monorail station and a long way from the station that we exited to the
Mirage. The walk was way too long and the price way to high.

Upon our return from the Mirage back to the Bay, we took a cab and the fare
was $20 for the four of us total plus a tip and the cab took us from the
front door of the Mirage to the front door of the Bay so we had no walking
between hotels. Needless to say we took a cab everywhere for the rest of
the week.

Tell me how can the monorail compete with the cabs? It would be more folly
to extend the monorail to the airport because who wants to carry their
luggage from a monorail station, through a casino, crossing a street and
walk a distance from the street to the hotel entrance. Not me, I'll take a
cab.
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In article
<99e8abc7-3eab-4a8b-8f6d-534c6bed2085.DeleteThis@s19g2000prg.googlegroups.com>,
jessica_smith_nyc <uwalum2002.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I think they did a horrible job of marketing the monorail from the
> start........mainly the outrageous fares they charged per person. They
> should have done more free rides or 2-for1 promotions to encourage
> people to try and ride. I think $2.50 is a fair price and a $4 day
> pass is reasonable place to start.

Even the best marketing couldn't overcome the monorail's lousy routing
away from the Strip.

I remember saying back when the monorail opened, that buses were the
way to go. Fixed-rail systems are costly and inflexible. The Deuce
buses are cheap by comparison, and can go wherever the demand is
greatest. Not surprisingly, demand is highest right along the Strip,
not a half-mile away on the east side.

--- Walt


>
>
> On Feb 3, 9:29 am, Walt <n....DeleteThis@none.void> wrote:
> > LVRJ columnist says tear it down...
> >
> > http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/15155121.html
> >
> > --- Walt
>
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In article <47a66933$0$22613$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>, Consultant
<consultant.DeleteThis@aol.com> wrote:

> "Walt" <none.DeleteThis@none.void> wrote in message
> news:030220081229410725%none@none.void...
> > LVRJ columnist says tear it down...
> >
> > http://www.lvrj.com/opinion/15155121.html
> >
> > --- Walt
>
> In my opinion the monorail will never be successful. My wife and I, along
> with another couple visited Vegas last September and stayed at the Mandalay
> Bay, which meant that we had to take public transportation almost every
> where we went during the week. At first we took the CAT down the strip
> which was reasonably priced and ran a regular schedule. However it was
> slow, stopping at every stop and dealing with the traffic on the strip.
>
> After the CAT we took the monorail, which proved to be the wrong decision.
> We paid $5 each for a one way trip, walked a long way from the Bay to the
> monorail station and a long way from the station that we exited to the
> Mirage. The walk was way too long and the price way to high.
>
> Upon our return from the Mirage back to the Bay, we took a cab and the fare
> was $20 for the four of us total plus a tip and the cab took us from the
> front door of the Mirage to the front door of the Bay so we had no walking
> between hotels. Needless to say we took a cab everywhere for the rest of
> the week.
>
> Tell me how can the monorail compete with the cabs? It would be more folly
> to extend the monorail to the airport because who wants to carry their
> luggage from a monorail station, through a casino, crossing a street and
> walk a distance from the street to the hotel entrance. Not me, I'll take a
> cab.

We discussed this back when the monorail opened and we pretty much
reached the same conclusion. For certain people in certain situations
(like needing to get to the Hilton or the Convention Center, or going
from the Sahara to the South Strip), the monorail is a viable option.
But there aren't enough such people to make the monorail a financial
success.

--- Walt
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