NY to LHR Newark Best??

"Binyamin Dissen" <postingid DeleteThis @dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
news:nat193h860lbfgl44jlsav7a4l23a2n1pi@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 8 Jul 2007 15:03:39 +0100 Roland Perry <roland DeleteThis @perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
> :>In message <fnn1931nm696f623ldts2g0bfa9com6ah5 DeleteThis @4ax.com>, at 16:08:51 on
> :>Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Binyamin Dissen <postingid DeleteThis @dissensoftware.com>
> :>remarked:
>
> :>>I was talking about crossing the border.
>
> :>>What happens in that case?
>
> :>>Is the cab allowed to cross?
>
> :>>Can the cabbie pick up a fare on the other side?
>
> :>The UK's borders are ocean. But you knew that. Similarly I wouldn't
> :>expect to get a cab from New York to Greenland.
>
> Is the UK the only country in Europe?
>
> How about NI to Ireland?
>
> :>>:> And in the UK, there is freedom to bring someone
> :>>:>else back, as long as the trip was pre-arranged (which is very common
> :>>:>for airport transfers).
>
> :>>There typically is a difference between livery and cabs.
>
> :>>Livery can only do pre-arranged pickups, but is allowed a bigger range.
>
> :>>Cabs can pick up on the street.
>
> :>And in the UK can also be a livery when out of area. Perhaps that's the
> :>essential point here.
>
> I don't know.
>
> Perhaps a NY cabbie can join a NJ livery company and get a fare back. I
> would
> think those would be few & far between. The cabbie would rather go with
> the
> extra percentage of the meter.

Even in New York City, that is the situation, especially for fleet hacks.
They have a very good reason to call Kennedy "the farm."
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

In message <nat193h860lbfgl44jlsav7a4l23a2n1pi.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, at 17:35:41 on
Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Binyamin Dissen <postingid.DeleteThis@dissensoftware.com>
remarked:
>Perhaps a NY cabbie can join a NJ livery company and get a fare back.

Do I detect more red tape? All a taxi driver needs is a way to attract
bookings, for example his office in NY accepting pre-bookings for Newark
Airport back to NY, which they hand out to whichever cab happens to have
just arrived with a departing passenger.

>I would think those would be few & far between.

So people don't often fly into Newark airport and then want to go to NY?

>The cabbie would rather go with the extra percentage of the meter.

But that has huge disadvantages.

>:>>:>Unless the
>:>>:>restrictions are deliberately placed to protect the NJ cab trade.
>
>:>>They are business licenses, and, yes, they are to protect the local cabbies.
>
>:>That's all I needed to know.
>
>:>>:>And what of the benefit to passengers.
>
>:>>It would be of even more benefit to passengers to allow anyone to drive a cab.
>
>:>No, I think there should be rules for driver and vehicle, but the same
>:>rules should be good enough for bordering administrations.
>
>Why?

If the administrations of NY and NJ can't be persuaded to trust
oneanother's standards for driving tests and vehicle licencing, then
it's farcical.

>:>>The local entities want to be able to collect taxes.
>
>:>So charge a toll on the freeway, as that's the only NJ resource being
>:>used here.
>
>How would one charge a toll on a freeway?

Toll booths.

>Also, there are local streets and emissions.

Which afflict the empty cab back to New York, and also the NJ cab to NY.
Double the problem! But you appear to support a system that reeks carbon
unnecessary emissions and pollution as a result of cabs being forced to
make empty journeys.
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

In article <q4nBgAHnOekGFAVd DeleteThis @perry.co.uk>,
Roland Perry <roland DeleteThis @perry.co.uk> wrote:
* In message <nat193h860lbfgl44jlsav7a4l23a2n1pi DeleteThis @4ax.com>, at 17:35:41 on
* Sun, 8 Jul 2007, Binyamin Dissen <postingid DeleteThis @dissensoftware.com>
* remarked:
* >Perhaps a NY cabbie can join a NJ livery company and get a fare back.
*
* Do I detect more red tape? All a taxi driver needs is a way to attract
* bookings, for example his office in NY accepting pre-bookings for Newark
* Airport back to NY, which they hand out to whichever cab happens to have
* just arrived with a departing passenger.

Which, as has been pointed out many times before, would be illegal. Cabs in
New York are licensed by the New York Taxi & Limousine Comission. Cabs in
New Jersey are licensed by the equivalent body in New Jersey. Different
jurisdictions, different governing bodies, different rules.

* >I would think those would be few & far between.
*
* So people don't often fly into Newark airport and then want to go to NY?

And when they do, they either take a shuttle or a bus or the train or a New
Jersey taxi.

* >The cabbie would rather go with the extra percentage of the meter.
*
* But that has huge disadvantages.

I'm actually not sure that it does. Trips to Newark Liberty International
are probably an absolutely miniscule proportion of a cabbie's fares. Even if
it were possible for a NYC yellow cob to get a NJ taxi license (I doubt it
would be--it'd require dual meters and dual license plates, for starts) , I
think that any extra money the cabbie would earn on trips back from Newark
would be swallowed by the extra costs of obtaining and maintaining the dual
licenses.

* If the administrations of NY and NJ can't be persuaded to trust
* oneanother's standards for driving tests and vehicle licencing, then it's
* farcical.

That's not the point here. The states do, in fact, recognize each other's
standards for driving tests and vehicle licensing; but that's not the issue
here. The issue is the right of the separate sovereigns to regulate state
businesses.

* >:>>The local entities want to be able to collect taxes.
* >
* >:>So charge a toll on the freeway, as that's the only NJ resource being
* >:>used here.
* >
* >How would one charge a toll on a freeway?
*
* Toll booths.

There are already two tolls on an EWR -> NYC trip: one on the NJ turnpike
and one at the Lincoln Tunnel.

But, as I pointed out before, this is, in the real world, a practical
non-issue.
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

Roland Perry <rol... RemoveThis @perry.co.uk> wrote:
> -hh <recscuba_goo... RemoveThis @huntzinger.com> remarked:
> > ... There is no subway, no rail, or PATH that leaves directly from
> >EWR to anywhere (let alone Manhatten), so you have to make a transfer
> >someplace. The "first leg" of your trip will have to either be the
> >monorail ("AirTrain"), bus, or taxi.
>
> I was describing the journey from NY to Newark, which from your
> description is at least three trains. A subway to get you from wherever
> you are in Manhattan, to connect to a train to a station near the
> airport, to connect onto the monorail. And that middle leg might be two
> trains.

Agreed. Part of the general problem is that the goal of a "single
seat" solution is nigh impossible within any metropolis that's large
enough to have more than one mass transit line. To really choose the
proverbial 'best' solution requires insight as to what part of NYC the
OP was looking at transiting to/from. For example, if it was from
near the WTC, the PATH station there has been rebuilt and that's a
single-seat ride from Newark Penn Station (Monorail-->Train-->PATH).

After I posted the above, I belatedly realized that you can also get
to downtown via the helicopter shuttle, but since the tone here was
that less expensive alternatives to a taxi was what was of interest, I
didn't think to mention the significantly more expensive one (IIRC,
its between $150-$200/pp one way).


-hh
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

"Binyamin Dissen" <postingid.DeleteThis@dissensoftware.com> wrote in message
news:cgb493926keg5gv31qksus1ns52gm7n3c6@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 08:28:39 +0100 Roland Perry <roland.DeleteThis@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>

>
> :>>How would one charge a toll on a freeway?
>
> :>Toll booths.
>
> Lets us try again.
>
> FREEway.

That mistake works both ways. I've seen North Americans
describe Europe's Divided Highways as Freeways despite
the fact that some of them are tolled.

tim
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:21:56 +0100, "tim....."
<tims_new_home DeleteThis @yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>That mistake works both ways. I've seen North Americans
>describe Europe's Divided Highways as Freeways despite
>the fact that some of them are tolled.

I always thought that term referred to the free (i.e. fast,
uncongested, without traffic lights) movement of traffic rather than
the price.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

On Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:17:46 +0800, Miguel Cruz <spam.TakeThisOut@spam.spam>
wrote:

>Like San Francisco, Chicago, Singapore, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Madrid,
>Istanbul, Sydney, Vienna, Amsterdam, Singapore, and Hong Kong, to name
>just some of the cities where I've managed to get directly into the
>center of town on one train from the airport in the past year or so.

Or like Manchester, where you can not only get to central Manchester
but also to Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield and Preston to name but a few.
Or Birmingham, where you can get practically anywhere in the country.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

In message <spam-DA1504.00174510072007@localhost>, at 00:17:46 on Tue,
10 Jul 2007, Miguel Cruz <spam.DeleteThis@spam.spam> remarked:
>-hh <recscuba_google.DeleteThis@huntzinger.com> wrote:
>> Agreed. Part of the general problem is that the goal of a "single
>> seat" solution is nigh impossible within any metropolis that's large
>> enough to have more than one mass transit line.
>
>Like San Francisco, Chicago, Singapore, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Madrid,
>Istanbul, Sydney, Vienna, Amsterdam, Singapore, and Hong Kong, to name
>just some of the cities where I've managed to get directly into the
>center of town on one train from the airport in the past year or so.

The particular problem with New York seems to be the "spoke" system of
major railways lines, none of which has a station right at the airport,
nor do any of the metro/subway lines which interlace Manhattan extend to
the airports. It would be acceptably non-confusing, and quite common, to
have to get a metro/subway train to the relevant major train station, as
long as that then delivered you directly to the airport.
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

In message <469284fc.89041845.TakeThisOut@news.individual.net>, at 18:58:38 on Mon,
9 Jul 2007, Neil Williams <wensleydale.TakeThisOut@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:
>>Like San Francisco, Chicago, Singapore, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Madrid,
>>Istanbul, Sydney, Vienna, Amsterdam, Singapore, and Hong Kong, to name
>>just some of the cities where I've managed to get directly into the
>>center of town on one train from the airport in the past year or so.
>
>Or like Manchester, where you can not only get to central Manchester
>but also to Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield and Preston to name but a few.
>Or Birmingham, where you can get practically anywhere in the country.

Not without changing trains, though. But I think I'm allowing the
confused tourist one change of train.
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

In message <cgb493926keg5gv31qksus1ns52gm7n3c6.DeleteThis@4ax.com>, at 15:50:01 on
Mon, 9 Jul 2007, Binyamin Dissen <postingid.DeleteThis@dissensoftware.com>
remarked:

>:>remarked:
>:>>Perhaps a NY cabbie can join a NJ livery company and get a fare back.
>
>:>Do I detect more red tape? All a taxi driver needs is a way to attract
>:>bookings, for example his office in NY accepting pre-bookings for Newark
>:>Airport back to NY, which they hand out to whichever cab happens to have
>:>just arrived with a departing passenger.
>
>That is not how livery works.

And livery does not seem to have the interests of the customer in mind.

>:>>I would think those would be few & far between.
>
>:>So people don't often fly into Newark airport and then want to go to NY?
>
>The Port Authority of NY&NJ probably has special rules to address this.

That's useful (and the first time you mentioned it).

>:>If the administrations of NY and NJ can't be persuaded to trust
>:>oneanother's standards for driving tests and vehicle licencing, then
>:>it's farcical.
>
>This is not a drivers license or vehicle licensing issue.
>
>It is a business license issue.

Cab businesses are clearly allowed to function across state lines.
Otherwise, as you described earlier, passengers would have to get out
and swap cabs on the 'border'.

>:>>:>>The local entities want to be able to collect taxes.
>
>:>>:>So charge a toll on the freeway, as that's the only NJ resource being
>:>>:>used here.
>
>:>>How would one charge a toll on a freeway?
>
>:>Toll booths.
>
>Lets us try again.
>
>FREEway.

If the Freeway is literally FREE to use, then stop complaining when
out-of-state cabs use the resource. As we say, you can't have your cake
*and* eat it.

>:>>Also, there are local streets and emissions.
>
>:>Which afflict the empty cab back to New York, and also the NJ cab to NY.
>:>Double the problem! But you appear to support a system that reeks carbon
>:>unnecessary emissions and pollution as a result of cabs being forced to
>:>make empty journeys.
>
>Well, go make your case to the various legislatures.
>
>Just because someone in Essex thinks that it is a good idea does not mean that
>the People of NY or NJ think that it is a good idea.

Well, we already got the message loud and clear that Americans don't
seem to care much about carbon emissions. That attitude will come back
to bite you. (Although I thought I read something about NY cabs starting
to be hybrids, in which case they also need to address this issue of
wasted miles, as well as the CO2 per mile).

ps. I'm not from Essex, in case you were talking about me
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

In message <spam-063331.00094210072007@localhost>, at 00:09:42 on Tue,
10 Jul 2007, Miguel Cruz <spam RemoveThis @spam.spam> remarked:
>> A bizarre thought to a European. Are you not the "United" States?
>
>I understand that teachers from other states in Germany are not allowed
>to teach in Bavaria without undergoing a new accreditation process.
>
>Surely there are plenty of examples of similar barriers if you look hard
>enough.

Europe has many laws allowing the recognition of businesses and
driver/vehicle registrations across borders.
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

On Mon, 9 Jul 2007 20:10:11 +0100, Roland Perry <roland.TakeThisOut@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <469284fc.89041845.TakeThisOut@news.individual.net>, at 18:58:38 on Mon,
>9 Jul 2007, Neil Williams <wensleydale.TakeThisOut@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:
>>>Like San Francisco, Chicago, Singapore, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt, Madrid,
>>>Istanbul, Sydney, Vienna, Amsterdam, Singapore, and Hong Kong, to name
>>>just some of the cities where I've managed to get directly into the
>>>center of town on one train from the airport in the past year or so.
>>
>>Or like Manchester, where you can not only get to central Manchester
>>but also to Liverpool, Leeds, Sheffield and Preston to name but a few.
>>Or Birmingham, where you can get practically anywhere in the country.
>
>Not without changing trains, though. But I think I'm allowing the
>confused tourist one change of train.

Both Manchester and Birmingham airports have direct trains to a number
of destinations well into three figures without any changes at all.
In particular, all of the above list are served by direct trains from
Manchester airport, and all the stations listed can be considered as
in the city centre.

Neil

--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the at to reply.
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best?? 

In message <f6tdv5$gul$1@panix5.panix.com>, at 09:41:57 on Mon, 9 Jul
2007, Paul Frankenstein <ppaauullff.TakeThisOut@ppaanniixx.ccoomm> remarked:

>* >Perhaps a NY cabbie can join a NJ livery company and get a fare back.
>*
>* Do I detect more red tape? All a taxi driver needs is a way to attract
>* bookings, for example his office in NY accepting pre-bookings for Newark
>* Airport back to NY, which they hand out to whichever cab happens to have
>* just arrived with a departing passenger.
>
>Which, as has been pointed out many times before, would be illegal. Cabs in
>New York are licensed by the New York Taxi & Limousine Comission. Cabs in
>New Jersey are licensed by the equivalent body in New Jersey. Different
>jurisdictions, different governing bodies, different rules.

Yes we know all that as a result of reading this thread. It just seems
ridiculous that there's so much red tape, when the cabs *do* operate in
each other's areas, but only when delivering rather than collecting,
passengers.

>* >I would think those would be few & far between.
>*
>* So people don't often fly into Newark airport and then want to go to NY?
>
>And when they do, they either take a shuttle or a bus or the train or a New
>Jersey taxi.

And the NY cabs who have dropped off a fare at the airport are forced to
drive back empty.

>* >The cabbie would rather go with the extra percentage of the meter.
>*
>* But that has huge disadvantages.
>
>I'm actually not sure that it does. Trips to Newark Liberty International
>are probably an absolutely miniscule proportion of a cabbie's fares. Even if
>it were possible for a NYC yellow cob to get a NJ taxi license (I doubt it
>would be--it'd require dual meters and dual license plates, for starts) , I
>think that any extra money the cabbie would earn on trips back from Newark
>would be swallowed by the extra costs of obtaining and maintaining the dual
>licenses.

You don't need dual licences, just reciprocal licences (and if you like,
just for trips to/from the airport).

>* If the administrations of NY and NJ can't be persuaded to trust
>* oneanother's standards for driving tests and vehicle licencing, then it's
>* farcical.
>
>That's not the point here. The states do, in fact, recognize each other's
>standards for driving tests and vehicle licensing; but that's not the issue
>here. The issue is the right of the separate sovereigns to regulate state
>businesses.

But apparently it doesn't matter that I pay the NY cabbie money, in NJ,
for the trip we just made from Manhattan?

>* >:>>The local entities want to be able to collect taxes.
>* >
>* >:>So charge a toll on the freeway, as that's the only NJ resource being
>* >:>used here.
>* >
>* >How would one charge a toll on a freeway?
>*
>* Toll booths.
>
>There are already two tolls on an EWR -> NYC trip: one on the NJ turnpike
>and one at the Lincoln Tunnel.
>
>But, as I pointed out before, this is, in the real world, a practical
>non-issue.

The issue was raised because of the suggestion that what NJ really
wanted to do was tax the NY cabbies, and a toll seemed the easiest way.
--
Roland Perry
 >> Stay informed about: NY to LHR Newark Best??