Shooting at Northern Illinois.

On Sat, 16 Feb 2008 09:36:04 -0800, Go Fig <gofig DeleteThis @mac.com>
wrote:

>> After the Port Arthur massacre our government declared
>> certain weapons illegal and provided funds to buy back the
>> private weapons from the public. An amnesty period was
>> declared so that no-one would be prosecuted for producing an
>> unregistered or illegal weapon during that period.
>>
>> http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-deaths-in-rapid-decline-since-buyback/
>> 2006/12/13/1165685752421.html
>
>Hummm... but what about the crime rate overall ?

I used to have the figures at hand. Do some googling. I'm
very happy to live here and not there:-)


Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
 >> Stay informed about: Shooting at Northern Illinois. 

On 16 Feb 2008 18:01:00 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert.TakeThisOut@iphouse.com>
wrote:

>In news:qmacr350ucc7n50d5s3no9ee59liqufqmj@4ax.com Alan S
><nothere.TakeThisOut@there.com> wrote:
>
>> After the Port Arthur massacre our government declared
>> certain weapons illegal and provided funds to buy back the
>> private weapons from the public....
>>
>> I couldn't see it working in the USA; apart from the
>> political differences, the cost would be astronomical.
>
>Did it actually "work" in Australia?
>
>Did Australian criminals dutifully line up and turn in their guns?
>
>Or were guns only confiscated from the law-abiding?

Read the article. Look at the deaths by firearms. And the
crims probably still have their guns but consider how many
massacres these days are by known criminals and how many are
by people with no criminal record?

Was the guy in Illinois a prior crim? The guys in Columbine?

Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia
 >> Stay informed about: Shooting at Northern Illinois. 

In news:epqer3tv4jtin8c06iav61j89m21ksu136@4ax.com Alan S
<nothere.DeleteThis@there.com> wrote:

> On 16 Feb 2008 18:01:00 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com>
> wrote:
>
>>In news:qmacr350ucc7n50d5s3no9ee59liqufqmj@4ax.com Alan S
>><nothere.DeleteThis@there.com> wrote:
>>
>>> After the Port Arthur massacre our government declared
>>> certain weapons illegal and provided funds to buy back the
>>> private weapons from the public....
>>>
>>> I couldn't see it working in the USA; apart from the
>>> political differences, the cost would be astronomical.
>>
>>Did it actually "work" in Australia?
>>
>>Did Australian criminals dutifully line up and turn in their guns?
>>
>>Or were guns only confiscated from the law-abiding?
>
> Read the article. Look at the deaths by firearms.

That's not the question.

Did Australian criminals dutifully line up and turn in their guns?

Or were guns only confiscated from the law-abiding?

Are you completely unconcered about crime in general, being peculiarly
fixated on only those involving firearms?

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com
 >> Stay informed about: Shooting at Northern Illinois. 

Alan S wrote:
> On 16 Feb 2008 18:01:00 GMT, Bert Hyman <bert DeleteThis @iphouse.com>
> wrote:
>
>> In news:qmacr350ucc7n50d5s3no9ee59liqufqmj@4ax.com Alan S
>> <nothere DeleteThis @there.com> wrote:
>>
>>> After the Port Arthur massacre our government declared
>>> certain weapons illegal and provided funds to buy back the
>>> private weapons from the public....
>>>
>>> I couldn't see it working in the USA; apart from the
>>> political differences, the cost would be astronomical.
>>
>> Did it actually "work" in Australia?
>>
>> Did Australian criminals dutifully line up and turn in their guns?
>>
>> Or were guns only confiscated from the law-abiding?
>
> Read the article. Look at the deaths by firearms. And the
> crims probably still have their guns but consider how many
> massacres these days are by known criminals and how many are
> by people with no criminal record?
>
> Was the guy in Illinois a prior crim? The guys in Columbine?

You would have been happier if they mixed up a batch of TATP and made
bombs?

It's not the weapon that's dangerous, it's the desire to kill at any
cost including one's own life that's dangerous.

Remember, the _worst_ "masscre" in US history was committed with
commercial airliners, second worst with gasoline, the ones with
firearms are way down on the list.

With regard to Illinois, there was a time when he likely would not
have been allowed to own a firearm, but various lawsuits aimed at
protecting nuts got the laws changed so that one's civil liberties
cannot be abrogated unless one is "adjudicated criminally insane".
Note that these suits were not brought by "the gun lobby", they were
mostly brought by the ACLU and other professional do-gooders.

With regard to Columbine, the "guys" were in fact prohibited from
owning firearms both due to their age and their criminal history and
in fact obtained them unlawfully with the aid of accomplices, at least
one of whom has been imprisoned for doing so. The real story though
is not the guns, the real story is that if they had been more
competent at making bombs then there would have been far, far more
dead.


--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
 >> Stay informed about: Shooting at Northern Illinois. 

In article <61onjbF1vgbslU3.TakeThisOut@mid.individual.net>,
Mike O'Sullivan <mike.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:

> Jim Davis wrote:
> >
> > I don't see it working here either. I don't know if you're aware, but
> > Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.
>
> But does Illinois have any way of preventing gun importation from
> neighbouring states?

No. No state does.
 >> Stay informed about: Shooting at Northern Illinois. 

In article <Xns9A46820C4387AVeebleFetzer.TakeThisOut@216.250.184.7>,
Bert Hyman <bert.TakeThisOut@iphouse.com> wrote:

> In news:61onjbF1vgbslU3@mid.individual.net Mike O'Sullivan
> <mike.TakeThisOut@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
> > Jim Davis wrote:
> >>
> >> I don't see it working here either. I don't know if you're aware,
> >> but Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.
> >
> > But does Illinois have any way of preventing gun importation from
> > neighbouring states?
>
> Federal law, of course.

How so?
 >> Stay informed about: Shooting at Northern Illinois. 

In news:srhi-C015CD.06531218022008@newsgroups.comcast.net Shawn Hirn
<srhi.DeleteThis@comcast.net> wrote:

> In article <Xns9A46820C4387AVeebleFetzer.DeleteThis@216.250.184.7>,
> Bert Hyman <bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
>> In news:61onjbF1vgbslU3@mid.individual.net Mike O'Sullivan
>> <mike.DeleteThis@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Jim Davis wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I don't see it working here either. I don't know if you're aware,
>> >> but Illinois has some of the strictest gun laws in the country.
>> >
>> > But does Illinois have any way of preventing gun importation from
>> > neighbouring states?
>>
>> Federal law, of course.
>
> How so?

In general, firearms can only be sold to residents of the state in which
the sale is performed.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm

From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State,
except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or
shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the
sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the
State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm
in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if
the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in
the purchaser’s own State?

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring
firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain
the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the
purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm
from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]


--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN bert.DeleteThis@iphouse.com
 >> Stay informed about: Shooting at Northern Illinois.