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What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers?

 
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gregorymorrowl

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Since: Oct 06, 2004
Posts: 120



(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Enzo Michelangeli wrote:

 > "Marco de Innocentis" <mdi00.DeleteThis@hotmail.com> wrote in message
 > news:830339ad535deecfa3c18d122141360b.122502@mygate.mailgate.org...
  > > "Boerge Olsen" <hightraverse2004.DeleteThis@yahoo.dk> wrote in message
  > > news:33048e1f.0408260737.38d9be70@posting.google.com
  > >
   > > > As one of the many (perhaps) unfortunately ones who have
   > > > bought AlItalia tickets for Italy this September I am
   > > > wondering what to make of the latest news?
  > >
  > > I try to avoid Alitalia like the plague but recently had a bad
  > > experience flying from the UK to Italy with Air France, which
  > > uses Alitalia for the Paris - Rome tract.
 >
 > Code-sharing is a scandal, and should be banned for several reasons, not
 > least its anti-competitive purpose. Besides, if I bought a bottle of
 > Brunello di Montalcino and I got some cheap plonk rebranded as such I
 > could sue for fraud. Why is this "brand replacement" allowed for air
 > flights?
 >
  > > Since the last weekend I've decided to use only direct flights
  > > to Italy from now on, in order to avoid Alitalia altogether.
  > > See also this artcile by John Kay in the Financial Times:
  > >
<font color=green>  > > <a style='text-decoration: underline;' href="http://www.johnkay.com/strategy/349</font" target="_blank">http://www.johnkay.com/strategy/349</font</a>>
 >
 > Great article. The surliness of the staff is one of Alitalia's most
 > irksome negative points. That is probably due in large measure to the
 > "national carrier" status of the airline that makes them think of being
 > invulnerable (Indian expatriate friends tell me similar horror stories
 > about Air India). But as Kay notes, the negative value of the brand
 > represents a net liability, and even the national-populists (like AN) who
 > usually oppose a liquidation on grounds of national pride should realize
 > that Alitalia is a national shame.


I saw a comment recently on an airline discussion board from a disgruntled
Alitalia passenger: "The Italians are so stylish and friendly and elegant
and have great food and drink and a nice quality of life. So why do they
have such a lousy airline? Why can't Alitalia represent the best facets of
Italian life? It should be a no - brainer for the Italians to have a
carrier that at least provides decent in - flight service...instead they
behave like a bunch of thugs from Belarus or some other dire place..."

--
Best
Greg<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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fgvbi

External


Since: Aug 27, 2004
Posts: 2



(Msg. 17) Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2004 4:27 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

"Marco de Innocentis" <mdi00 RemoveThis @hotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:830339ad535deecfa3c18d122141360b.122502@mygate.mailgate.org...
 > "Boerge Olsen" <hightraverse2004 RemoveThis @yahoo.dk> wrote in message
 > news:33048e1f.0408260737.38d9be70@posting.google.com
 >
  > > As one of the many (perhaps) unfortunately ones who have
  > > bought AlItalia tickets for Italy this September I am wondering
  > > what to make of the latest news?
 >
 > I try to avoid Alitalia like the plague but recently had a bad
 > experience flying from the UK to Italy with Air France, which uses
 > Alitalia for the Paris - Rome tract. I was going back for the bank
 > holiday weekend, and my luggage was lost in both directions.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I wonder if you know what's the real policy of the air transportation system
about luggage. You MUST know that if you have a ticket for a weekend and you
don't carry just a simple hand luggage you are going to loose the luggage
because employees are instructed to do so in order to convince you to take a
hand luggage the next weekend. You are to stay two days in Rome, what the
hell you need for just two days? One dress for each hour? One pair of shoes
every two hours? You deserve to be treated that way, and you should pay an
additional tax for carrying large luggage for a stay of just two days. I
have got in China last month, I stayed there for 12 days, I have carried
with me a hand luggage wheiging 15-20 kg, when I was back in Italy the
officer at the custom stopped me saying "Where do you came from? Please show
me your passport" I was a little bit curious about his question so I asked
"What's that, do you think I'm a drug dealer?" and he said "No no, just a
random control, so where do you come from?" and I said "From Bejing" and he
said "And how many days did you stay there?" "From the 10th of August until
this morning, but why are you asking me that?" "Please let me see what's
inside your bag" I was a little bit puzzled but I could do nothing more than
open my luggage, he looked inside and when he finished he told me "Each time
I start a trip I always say to myself -I'll take few things with me, this
time it's for real- so I just wanted to know what you had in your luggage"
he then smiled and I was to laugh but I was tired because of the travel.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->

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pnsmnyv

External


Since: Jun 08, 2004
Posts: 195



(Msg. 18) Posted: Sun Sep 05, 2004 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

On Thu, 02 Sep 2004 14:19:44 -0400, nobody <nobody.TakeThisOut@nobody.org> wrote:

 >Enzo Michelangeli wrote:
   >> > A refund of tickets and stop for booking on flights from a particular
   >> > day seems a much more decent way for a state owned company to end
   >> > business, if thats what they are forced to do.
  >>
  >> Decency... Hmmm, that would be an interesting idea for a radical change!
 >
 >When an airline stops operating, it is because it no longer has any cash to
 >pay for operating expenses (fuel, airport fees) and creditors begin to seize
 >the equipment. At that moment, any cash it has goes towards paying secured
 >creditors (and I think employees last pay check).

That's not true, Mezei. A company can be forced to liquidate with cash
on hand to pay for operating expenses. A bankrupt company no longer
controls its own fate. In the case of Alitalia, the government or one
of its other controlling investors, could force a board vote that
would liquidate the carrier. Any money on hand at that time, as well
as any money generated through the sale of assets, would be
distributed to owners.<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kutzu0002

External


Since: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 19) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Cyrus Afzali schrieb:

   > >> > A refund of tickets and stop for booking on flights from a particular
   > >> > day seems a much more decent way for a state owned company to end
   > >> > business, if thats what they are forced to do.
   > >>
   > >> Decency... Hmmm, that would be an interesting idea for a radical change!
  > >
  > >When an airline stops operating, it is because it no longer has any cash to
  > >pay for operating expenses (fuel, airport fees) and creditors begin to seize
  > >the equipment. At that moment, any cash it has goes towards paying secured
  > >creditors (and I think employees last pay check).
 >
 > That's not true, Mezei. A company can be forced to liquidate with cash
 > on hand to pay for operating expenses. A bankrupt company no longer
 > controls its own fate.

Depends. Partially, sometimes.

By the way, Alitalia have new agreements with their employees and shall
get a new government subsidize.

Regards, ULF<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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tile

External


Since: May 04, 2004
Posts: 334



(Msg. 20) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:04 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

it is not corrext to say that It.Government will subsidize.
that is against the European regulations.

The government will give a short term loan..
but in any case it needs the Eu approval.
"Ulf Kutzner" <kutzu000 RemoveThis @mail.uni-mainz.de> ha scritto nel messaggio
news:415BE83C.371C973D@mail.uni-mainz.de...
 > Cyrus Afzali schrieb:
 >
   > > >> > A refund of tickets and stop for booking on flights from a
particular
   > > >> > day seems a much more decent way for a state owned company to end
   > > >> > business, if thats what they are forced to do.
   > > >>
   > > >> Decency... Hmmm, that would be an interesting idea for a radical
change!
   > > >
   > > >When an airline stops operating, it is because it no longer has any
cash to
   > > >pay for operating expenses (fuel, airport fees) and creditors begin to
seize
   > > >the equipment. At that moment, any cash it has goes towards paying
secured
   > > >creditors (and I think employees last pay check).
  > >
  > > That's not true, Mezei. A company can be forced to liquidate with cash
  > > on hand to pay for operating expenses. A bankrupt company no longer
  > > controls its own fate.
 >
 > Depends. Partially, sometimes.
 >
 > By the way, Alitalia have new agreements with their employees and shall
 > get a new government subsidize.
 >
 > Regards, ULF<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kutzu0002

External


Since: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 21) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:06 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

nobody schrieb:

 > Delta and Alitalia are two totally different situations.
 >
 > Delta is in no immediate danger of being liquidated. Bankrupcy for Delta is
 > just paperwork to void contracts and force renegotiation of said contracts at
 > lower rates. EG: just an instrument to improve the company.
 >
 > Alitalia is running out of cash.

Well, there was a report that Delta couldn't even buy food to cater a
transaltlantic flight.

Regards, ULF<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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kutzu0002

External


Since: Aug 12, 2004
Posts: 312



(Msg. 22) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 4:09 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

Marco de Innocentis schrieb:

 > I try to avoid Alitalia like the plague but recently had a bad
 > experience flying from the UK to Italy with Air France, which uses
 > Alitalia for the Paris - Rome tract.

Don't they have own flights to Rome?

Regards, ULF<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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nospam151

External


Since: Aug 27, 2004
Posts: 13



(Msg. 23) Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2004 11:20 pm
Post subject: Re: What does the AlItalia situation mean for travellers? [Login to view extended thread Info.]

"tile" <tile DeleteThis @libero.it> wrote in message
news:jeS6d.16187$N45.416478@twister2.libero.it...
 > it is not corrext to say that It.Government will svbsidize.
 > that is against the Evropean regvlations.
 >
 > The government will give a short term loan..
 > bvt in any case it needs the Ev approval.

The EU by and large is controlled by the national governments, and all of
them are mvch more sensitive to pressvres coming from vnions (small and
economically harmfvl, bvt organized) than from the mass of consvmers and
taxpayers (large bvt fragmented, and therefore easy to shear). Besides,
fvdging inconvenient regvlations is an art at which politicians excel:
look at the 3% limit on bvdget deficits...

Enzo<!-- ~MESSAGE_AFTER~ -->
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