can I take BA to court?

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:42:02 +0200, Binyamin Dissen
<postingid RemoveThis @dissensoftware.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:16:15 -0800 "Mr. Travel" <mtravel RemoveThis @a.a> wrote:
>
>:>Binyamin Dissen wrote:
>
>:>> The insured has the obligation to attempt to mitigate damages.
>
>:>> While Mr. Kulp would have the passenger sleep in the terminal and eat food
>:>> from the garbage cans until the folk from BA would get around to giving him
>:>> service, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE, the passenger, measuring the costs
>:>> of hotels and meals in Rome and lost wages versus the cost of a replacement
>:>> ticket, made the decision that would mitigate damages.
>
>:>No, he didn't attempt to mitigate damages. Rather than wait in line for
>:>assistance or have any further contact with BA, he simply made purchases
>:> without approval.
>
>OK, lets see if you will answer.
>
>How long must he wait for BA to do anything?
>
>2 hours?
>
>12 hours?
>
>2 days?
>
>3 weeks?
>
>At what point will you concede that BA is not doing anything?

Let's not make up hypotheticals on a slippery slope. I should
think a couple of hours might be reasonable under such exigent
circumstances. So. How long did he actually wait? Hmmm?

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

In message <0k4bs3tlhdc5inulr7sas967elt8l1qbqd RemoveThis @4ax.com> Binyamin Dissen
<postingid RemoveThis @dissensoftware.com> wrote:

>At what point will you concede that BA is not doing anything?

Once BA isn't actually doing anything. In every strike I've been
involved with (as a customer), the company eventually makes an
announcement.

As an analogy, if you have a telco line install scheduled, even if the
telco goes on strike, you will billed for the missed install if they
show up and you're not available.

(This happened locally a few years ago, there were enough people who
refused to strike right from day #1 that some work was still being
completed)

Not only that, but odds are good that if your traveler's insurance plan
covers payment for anything in this situation, it would include hotels
or other accommodations while waiting to hear from BA.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

DevilsPGD wrote:

> In message <0k4bs3tlhdc5inulr7sas967elt8l1qbqd DeleteThis @4ax.com> Binyamin Dissen
> <postingid DeleteThis @dissensoftware.com> wrote:
>
>
>>At what point will you concede that BA is not doing anything?
>
>
> Once BA isn't actually doing anything. In every strike I've been
> involved with (as a customer), the company eventually makes an
> announcement.
>
> As an analogy, if you have a telco line install scheduled, even if the
> telco goes on strike, you will billed for the missed install if they
> show up and you're not available.
>
> (This happened locally a few years ago, there were enough people who
> refused to strike right from day #1 that some work was still being
> completed)
>
> Not only that, but odds are good that if your traveler's insurance plan
> covers payment for anything in this situation, it would include hotels
> or other accommodations while waiting to hear from BA.

Travel insurance generally doesn't include strikes.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:10:36 -0700 Hatunen <hatunen DeleteThis @cox.net> wrote:

:>On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:42:02 +0200, Binyamin Dissen
:><postingid DeleteThis @dissensoftware.com> wrote:

:>>On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:16:15 -0800 "Mr. Travel" <mtravel DeleteThis @a.a> wrote:

:>>:>Binyamin Dissen wrote:

:>>:>> The insured has the obligation to attempt to mitigate damages.

:>>:>> While Mr. Kulp would have the passenger sleep in the terminal and eat food
:>>:>> from the garbage cans until the folk from BA would get around to giving him
:>>:>> service, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE, the passenger, measuring the costs
:>>:>> of hotels and meals in Rome and lost wages versus the cost of a replacement
:>>:>> ticket, made the decision that would mitigate damages.

:>>:>No, he didn't attempt to mitigate damages. Rather than wait in line for
:>>:>assistance or have any further contact with BA, he simply made purchases
:>>:> without approval.

:>>OK, lets see if you will answer.

:>>How long must he wait for BA to do anything?

:>>2 hours?

:>>12 hours?

:>>2 days?

:>>3 weeks?

:>>At what point will you concede that BA is not doing anything?

:>Let's not make up hypotheticals on a slippery slope. I should
:>think a couple of hours might be reasonable under such exigent
:>circumstances. So. How long did he actually wait? Hmmm?

Not a slippery slope at all. I would concede that a wait of 30 minutes is not
out of line. A wait of twelve hours would be out of line.

The issue is that the airline toadies refuse to go on record that even if BA
made him wait - a month - for a response that he would be justified in acting
by himself.

--
Binyamin Dissen <bdissen DeleteThis @dissensoftware.com>
http://www.dissensoftware.com

Should you use the mailblocks package and expect a response from me,
you should preauthorize the dissensoftware.com domain.

I very rarely bother responding to challenge/response systems,
especially those from irresponsible companies.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:03:46 +0200, Binyamin Dissen
<postingid.TakeThisOut@dissensoftware.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 11:10:36 -0700 Hatunen <hatunen.TakeThisOut@cox.net> wrote:
>
>:>On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 18:42:02 +0200, Binyamin Dissen
>:><postingid.TakeThisOut@dissensoftware.com> wrote:
>
>:>>On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 07:16:15 -0800 "Mr. Travel" <mtravel.TakeThisOut@a.a> wrote:
>
>:>>:>Binyamin Dissen wrote:
>
>:>>:>> The insured has the obligation to attempt to mitigate damages.
>
>:>>:>> While Mr. Kulp would have the passenger sleep in the terminal and eat food
>:>>:>> from the garbage cans until the folk from BA would get around to giving him
>:>>:>> service, NO MATTER HOW LONG IT WOULD TAKE, the passenger, measuring the costs
>:>>:>> of hotels and meals in Rome and lost wages versus the cost of a replacement
>:>>:>> ticket, made the decision that would mitigate damages.
>
>:>>:>No, he didn't attempt to mitigate damages. Rather than wait in line for
>:>>:>assistance or have any further contact with BA, he simply made purchases
>:>>:> without approval.
>
>:>>OK, lets see if you will answer.
>
>:>>How long must he wait for BA to do anything?
>
>:>>2 hours?
>
>:>>12 hours?
>
>:>>2 days?
>
>:>>3 weeks?
>
>:>>At what point will you concede that BA is not doing anything?
>
>:>Let's not make up hypotheticals on a slippery slope. I should
>:>think a couple of hours might be reasonable under such exigent
>:>circumstances. So. How long did he actually wait? Hmmm?
>
>Not a slippery slope at all. I would concede that a wait of 30 minutes is not
>out of line. A wait of twelve hours would be out of line.

That's all rather hypothetical, but we have an instant questin
that isn't being answered.

>The issue is that the airline toadies refuse to go on record that even if BA
>made him wait - a month - for a response that he would be justified in acting
>by himself.

Huh? But he didn't wait a month. I gather it might have been less
than a few hours. And the airline might be quite justified in not
answering, depending on what it was asked. Do you know,
specifically, what it was asked, or are you just looking for an
excuse to vent?

--
************* DAVE HATUNEN (hatunen@cox.net) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

Binyamin Dissen wrote:
e.
>
> The issue is that the airline toadies refuse to go on record that even if BA
> made him wait - a month - for a response that he would be justified in acting
> by himself.
>

NONSENSE. Migation doesn't mean you simply walk away from the line and
start spending money, assuming the airline is going to pay you back for
it all.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:03:46 +0200, Binyamin Dissen
<postingid RemoveThis @dissensoftware.com> wrote:


>:>>At what point will you concede that BA is not doing anything?
>
>:>Let's not make up hypotheticals on a slippery slope. I should
>:>think a couple of hours might be reasonable under such exigent
>:>circumstances. So. How long did he actually wait? Hmmm?
>
>Not a slippery slope at all. I would concede that a wait of 30 minutes is not
>out of line. A wait of twelve hours would be out of line.

It doesn't matter one whit what you will or will not concede. You are
completely immaterial to the decision. He had a contract and has to
abide by it whether he likes the terms or not.

>
>The issue is that the airline toadies refuse to go on record that even if BA
>made him wait - a month - for a response that he would be justified in acting
>by himself.

This comment is so completely stupid and irrelevant it doesn't even
warrant a response.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Wed, 27 Feb 2008 12:37:52 -0700, Hatunen <hatunen.RemoveThis@cox.net> wrote:


>>:>>At what point will you concede that BA is not doing anything?
>>
>>:>Let's not make up hypotheticals on a slippery slope. I should
>>:>think a couple of hours might be reasonable under such exigent
>>:>circumstances. So. How long did he actually wait? Hmmm?
>>
>>Not a slippery slope at all. I would concede that a wait of 30 minutes is not
>>out of line. A wait of twelve hours would be out of line.
>
>That's all rather hypothetical, but we have an instant questin
>that isn't being answered.
>
>>The issue is that the airline toadies refuse to go on record that even if BA
>>made him wait - a month - for a response that he would be justified in acting
>>by himself.
>
>Huh? But he didn't wait a month. I gather it might have been less
>than a few hours. And the airline might be quite justified in not
>answering, depending on what it was asked. Do you know,
>specifically, what it was asked, or are you just looking for an
>excuse to vent?

An excuse to vent, of course.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Feb 16, 10:58 am, gA <rea....DeleteThis@ualberta.net> wrote:
> John, instead of continuing to sit back and amusing myself in
> reading all possible arguments based on assumptions, I wish to
> point out a couple of things, especially for the benefit of Cheryl
> who seems genuinely interested in getting advice (as I did):
> - yes, I do have the BA handout which appears to be essential. The
> BA employee also confirmed not knowing when flights would resume -
> 'for sure not until tomorrow, then nobody knows..';

Rather than taking the matter to court, I'd suggest taking it to your
local newpaper. It seems that quite often when things go wrong, the
airlines or other organizations ignore individuals but quickly respond
to media reps. Several newspapers run columns dedicated to this kind
of activity.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Mar 5, 7:29 pm, john_k....RemoveThis@hotmail.com (John Kulp) wrote:

> Yeah, newspaper love printing garbage like this that is full of lies
> and distortions. Sells lots of papers and ruins lots of reputations.
> Any reputable reporter would check the facts, find out he just walked
> away and avoid a libel suit.

You mistake me. I am not suggesting that he sic reporters on BA.

Newspapers run traveler's woes columns, where they follow up with
hotels/ airlines/ travel agents etc, who often give them a more
respectful hearing than they give individual travelers. (There's a
more recent example where I think National Geographic's ombudsman
followed up with the airline when a passenger had a very uncomfortable
flight because the person next to her overflowed onto her seat.

The worst that can happen is ... nothing. What's he got to lose?
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Mar 5, 8:08 pm, john_k....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (John Kulp) wrote:
> On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:48:45 -0800 (PST), "Rupa Bosewww.rupabose.org"
>
>
>
>
>
> <rkb....TakeThisOut@gmail.com> wrote:
> >On Mar 5, 7:29 pm, john_k....TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (John Kulp) wrote:
>
> >> Yeah, newspaper love printing garbage like this that is full of lies
> >> and distortions.  Sells lots of papers and ruins lots of reputations.
> >> Any reputable reporter would check the facts, find out he just walked
> >> away and avoid a libel suit.
>
> >You mistake me. I am not suggesting that he sic reporters on BA.
>
> >Newspapers run traveler's woes columns, where they follow up with
> >hotels/ airlines/ travel agents etc, who often give them a more
> >respectful hearing than they give individual travelers. (There's a
> >more recent example where I think National Geographic's ombudsman
> >followed up with the airline when a passenger had a very uncomfortable
> >flight because the person next to her overflowed onto her seat.
>
> >The worst that can happen is ... nothing. What's he got to lose?
>
> What's the story here?  He left on his own without giving the airline
> a chance to do anything at all, making up all kind of excuses for
> doing so.  He patently violated the terms of his contract with the
> airline in so doing and ran up just about the highest amount of
> expenses is so doing, doing nothing at all to mitigate expenses for
> BA.  The only thing I see BA owes him is a refund of the remaining
> part of his trip and a pat on the back.  So where's the story?
> Ombudsman have a valid function in helping resolve valid disputes, not
> one's manufactured by one party of the other, which is what this is.

Well, first, why should there *be* a "story"? There's a story in that
a customer was inconvenienced and annoyed; I think I'd have felt the
same way in his position, and might well have done the same thing -
especially as the people at the counter were not actually dealing with
the issue, and may have been on strike themselves.

whether this is a valid dispute or not is surely a matter of opinion;
you and Mr Travel believe it isn't; the OP and several others believe
it is. Just from the fact that there are already nearly 80 posts, I
think it might well be something that one of these travel columns does
take up. I'd like to see the result, for one.

What's the downside? At worst, the travel columnist will not be
interested. At best, the traveler will get some or all of the money he
spent. In the middle case, there'll be an interesting story in the
column.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:19:34 -0800 (PST), "Rupa Bose www.rupabose.org"
<rkbose DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On Feb 16, 10:58 am, gA <rea... DeleteThis @ualberta.net> wrote:
>> John, instead of continuing to sit back and amusing myself in
>> reading all possible arguments based on assumptions, I wish to
>> point out a couple of things, especially for the benefit of Cheryl
>> who seems genuinely interested in getting advice (as I did):
>> - yes, I do have the BA handout which appears to be essential. The
>> BA employee also confirmed not knowing when flights would resume -
>> 'for sure not until tomorrow, then nobody knows..';
>
>Rather than taking the matter to court, I'd suggest taking it to your
>local newpaper. It seems that quite often when things go wrong, the
>airlines or other organizations ignore individuals but quickly respond
>to media reps. Several newspapers run columns dedicated to this kind
>of activity.

Yeah, newspaper love printing garbage like this that is full of lies
and distortions. Sells lots of papers and ruins lots of reputations.
Any reputable reporter would check the facts, find out he just walked
away and avoid a libel suit.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court? 

On Wed, 5 Mar 2008 19:48:45 -0800 (PST), "Rupa Bose www.rupabose.org"
<rkbose DeleteThis @gmail.com> wrote:

>On Mar 5, 7:29 pm, john_k... DeleteThis @hotmail.com (John Kulp) wrote:
>
>> Yeah, newspaper love printing garbage like this that is full of lies
>> and distortions. Sells lots of papers and ruins lots of reputations.
>> Any reputable reporter would check the facts, find out he just walked
>> away and avoid a libel suit.
>
>You mistake me. I am not suggesting that he sic reporters on BA.
>
>Newspapers run traveler's woes columns, where they follow up with
>hotels/ airlines/ travel agents etc, who often give them a more
>respectful hearing than they give individual travelers. (There's a
>more recent example where I think National Geographic's ombudsman
>followed up with the airline when a passenger had a very uncomfortable
>flight because the person next to her overflowed onto her seat.
>
>The worst that can happen is ... nothing. What's he got to lose?
>

What's the story here? He left on his own without giving the airline
a chance to do anything at all, making up all kind of excuses for
doing so. He patently violated the terms of his contract with the
airline in so doing and ran up just about the highest amount of
expenses is so doing, doing nothing at all to mitigate expenses for
BA. The only thing I see BA owes him is a refund of the remaining
part of his trip and a pat on the back. So where's the story?
Ombudsman have a valid function in helping resolve valid disputes, not
one's manufactured by one party of the other, which is what this is.
 >> Stay informed about: can I take BA to court?