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External
Since: Feb 05, 2005
Posts: 881
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(Msg. 16) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: rec>travel>europe (more info?)
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:51:08 GMT, john_kulp DeleteThis @hotmail.com
(John Kulp) wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:17:43 +1100, Alan S <nothere DeleteThis @there.com> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:39:43 GMT, john_kulp DeleteThis @hotmail.com
>>(John Kulp) wrote:
>>
>>>In the NY Times:
>>
>>Good place for it. Leave it there next time.
>
>Leave what? An article on UK healthcare written by one of the leading
>US newspapers? Why?
It has absolutely nothing to do with rec.travel.europe
The only relevance would be for a person coming to the UK
who needs to know how to access healthcare while travelling.
And that article omits any mention of that.
I'd be happy to chat about it in great detail on one of the
several medical groups I'm on, but not here.
Cheers, Alan, Australia
--
http://loraltravel.blogspot.com/
latest: Slovenia |
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External
Since: Jun 30, 2007
Posts: 657
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(Msg. 17) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 14:02:51 +1100, Alan S <nothere.TakeThisOut@there.com> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:51:08 GMT, john_kulp.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com
>(John Kulp) wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:17:43 +1100, Alan S <nothere.TakeThisOut@there.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:39:43 GMT, john_kulp.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com
>>>(John Kulp) wrote:
>>>
>>>>In the NY Times:
>>>
>>>Good place for it. Leave it there next time.
>>
>>Leave what? An article on UK healthcare written by one of the leading
>>US newspapers? Why?
>
>It has absolutely nothing to do with rec.travel.europe
>The only relevance would be for a person coming to the UK
>who needs to know how to access healthcare while travelling.
>And that article omits any mention of that.
>
>I'd be happy to chat about it in great detail on one of the
>several medical groups I'm on, but not here.
I see your point, of course, but would point out that lots of topics
that have nothing particularly to do with travel in Europe are posted
here all the time. Including one a few months ago where a bunch of
Europeans decided to attack the US system--one calling it ghastly--so
I thought a little turnabout from a highly reputable newspaper was a
bit of fairplay. |
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External
Since: Jan 11, 2004
Posts: 685
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(Msg. 18) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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In article <47be3771.87076098 DeleteThis @news20.forteinc.com>, John Kulp
<john_kulp DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:53:46 -0000, "nightjar" <cpb@<insert my surname
> here>.me.uk> wrote:
>
> >
> >"John Kulp" <john_kulp DeleteThis @hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:47bdffad.72799790@news20.forteinc.com...
> >> On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 19:01:09 +0100, Dusty Furtile Morrocan
> >> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> >>
> >>>On the particular moment of Thu, 21 Feb 2008 13:39:43 GMT in relation
> >>>to Mary's disappointingly immaculate rumpy pumpy,
> >>>john_kulp@hotmail.com (John Kulp) put forth:
> >>>
> >>>>In the NY Times:
> >>>
> >>><snips long, irrelevant article>
> >>>
> >>>Joy, another article pointing out some isolated cases.
> >>>
> >>>How about explaining why the world isn't rushing headlong into an
> >>>American-style health system?
> >>
> >> Yeah irrelevant alright. And hardly isolated. Everytime I have been
> >> in the UK there's something on the BBC about cases like this. If they
> >> were so isolated, that would hardly be the case would it?
> >
> >That is like suggesting that aircraft accidents must be common because they
> >are always reported. Anything that becomes too common, like traffic
> >accidents (excluding the really spectacular ones) simply ceases to be
> >newsworthy. It is the unusual that gets reported.
>
> I wasn't talking about aircraft accidents, I was posting an article in
> the NY Times on UK healthcare. I didn't write it, edit it or do
> anything else. So are you claiming that the Times, the leading
> leftist newspaper, is making up a non-existent problem that I
> personally have heard criticism about on the BBC everytime I have been
> in the UK? Or was I just beating the odds?
On most Sundays at 3pm (eastern) on CSPAN you can watch "Prime
Minister's Questions"... the only 'questions' that possibly eclipse
health care is crime.
jay
Thu Feb 21, 2008
mailto:gofig@mac.com
>
> >
> >The NHS is extremely good at dealing with acute cases, something I have more
> >experience with than I would like. Where it fails is that Government does
> >not give it enough resources to be good at dealing with chronic cases too.
>
> At the cost of people's lives? Allowing bureaucrats to arbitrarily
> decide someone doesn't get care because it's "unfair" to others? >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Jan 14, 2005
Posts: 334
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(Msg. 19) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:33 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 02:49:17 GMT, john_kulp.RemoveThis@hotmail.com (John Kulp)
wrote:
>At the cost of people's lives? Allowing bureaucrats to arbitrarily
>decide someone doesn't get care because it's "unfair" to others?
Have you ever dealt with the bean-counters at privately run health
insurance organizations (ya know, Aetn, Cigna, Blue Cross, etc.) as
well as many HMOs when you need a procedure or medicine pre-approved?
or dealt with their denial of coveage? Bureaucrats aren't just found
in government. >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 260
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(Msg. 20) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Following up to john_kulp.TakeThisOut@hotmail.com (John Kulp) wrote:
> And lots of
>places in Europe, including the UK, ARE moving in the US direction,
>which is what the private insurance is all about isn't it?
why do you feel the need to tell us you dont want "our" system? If
yours is so good why the need to rant on about perceived failings in
ours in a travel group? You're wasting your breath anyway, nobody has
any time for the US system.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 260
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(Msg. 21) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Following up to john_kulp RemoveThis @hotmail.com (John Kulp) wrote:
>I wasn't talking about aircraft accidents, I was posting an article in
>the NY Times on UK healthcare.
you were talking about *news*, dont pretend you were not.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Feb 03, 2008
Posts: 260
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(Msg. 22) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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Following up to john_kulp.RemoveThis@hotmail.com (John Kulp) wrote:
>An article on UK healthcare written by one of the leading
>US newspapers? Why?
because the US view of UK healthcare isn't realistic, its just picking
on exceptions to make Americans feel less guilty about their failure
to provide good healthcare for the less well off in the richest
country on earth. Now go away.
--
Mike
Remove clothing to email >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Oct 13, 2006
Posts: 1530
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(Msg. 23) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:04 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:41:13 -0600, "Pat" <tick DeleteThis @tock.com> wrote:
>
>>>>
>>>>>Who is this "we"?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why did you snip the poster's details?
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Martin
>>>
>>>Because all I am interested in is his subject line.
>>
>> He's speaking for you, all Americans, allies, and aspirers.
>> --
>> DFM -
>
>Funny, I don't recall being asked if he could speak for me.....
America's like that. >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 24) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:10 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>>>>>Who is this "we"?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Why did you snip the poster's details?
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>>Because all I am interested in is his subject line.
>>>
>>> He's speaking for you, all Americans, allies, and aspirers.
>>> --
>>> DFM -
>>
>>Funny, I don't recall being asked if he could speak for me.....
>
> America's like that.
NO! That's wrong! Do you say "Germany's like that." if one German says or
posts something stupid? Do you say, "Denmark's like that." if one Dane says
or posts something stupid? Then stop treating 301 million Americans as if
they are all the same. You are a bigot!
Pat in TX >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Feb 21, 2008
Posts: 10
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(Msg. 25) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 9:13 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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> >
> At the cost of people's lives? Allowing bureaucrats to arbitrarily
> decide someone doesn't get care because it's "unfair" to others?
John are you simplistic? Do you not understand that is going on right now,
in the US and other countries? Get myelogenous leukemia---if you are over
50, you won't get the approved treatment which is a immune system bone
marrow transplant. If you are a smoker, do you think you will get that
heart transplant? That lung transplant? If you are an alcoholic, do you
think you stand much of a chance of being first in line for that liver
transplant?
Pat in TX >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Jan 15, 2007
Posts: 3624
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(Msg. 26) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:27 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2006
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 27) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:29 am
Post subject: AW: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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>>Patients "cannot, in one episode of treatment, be treated on the
>>N.H.S. and then allowed, as part of the same episode and the same
>>treatment, to pay money for more drugs," the health secretary, Alan
>>Johnson, told Parliament.
>
> And why not??
There is no reason.
The German health insurance system has stopped paying for "everything", but
the consequence is that you have to pay the difference yourself - up to a
certain percentage of your income.
It is just plain rubbish if the NHS insists "either we pay what we consider
appropriate or you pay the lot and we do not pay a penny". >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Jun 02, 2006
Posts: 48
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(Msg. 28) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:29 am
Post subject: AW: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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External
Since: Oct 13, 2006
Posts: 1530
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(Msg. 29) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:29 am
Post subject: Re: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Archived from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 11:27:39 +0100, Martin <me RemoveThis @address.invalid> wrote:
>On Fri, 22 Feb 2008 09:00:03 +0100, Tim C. <tim.challenger RemoveThis @aon.at> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 21 Feb 2008 17:41:13 -0600, "Pat" <tick RemoveThis @tock.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Who is this "we"?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Why did you snip the poster's details?
>>>>>Because all I am interested in is his subject line.
>>>>
>>>> He's speaking for you, all Americans, allies, and aspirers.
>
>and broom cupboard perspirers?
>
>>>> --
>>>> DFM -
>>>
>>>Funny, I don't recall being asked if he could speak for me.....
>>
>>America's like that.
>
>Somewhere in America a lonely girl asks -
>Are you spoken for, Tim?
LOL! >> Stay informed about: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care |
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External
Since: Jan 15, 2007
Posts: 3624
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(Msg. 30) Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:29 am
Post subject: Re: AW: Why We Don't Want "Free" Medical Care [Login to view extended thread Info.]
Imported from groups: per prev. post (more info?)
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